Legislature(2007 - 2008)BARNES 124

07/23/2008 10:00 AM House COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS


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Audio Topic
10:02:44 AM Start
10:02:59 AM HB4002|| HB4003
03:09:15 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Recessed 30 Min. Following Session --
+= HB4002 RESOURCE REBATE PROGRAM FOR RESIDENTS TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 4002(CRA) Out of Committee
= HB4003 APPROP: ENERGY RELIEF/REBATE/FUEL TAX
Moved CSHB 4003(CRA) Out of Committee
Public Testimony
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
 HOUSE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL CO-CHAIR AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE                                                             
                         July 23, 2008                                                                                          
                           10:02 a.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Anna Fairclough, Co-Chair                                                                                        
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux, Co-Chair                                                                                       
Representative Nancy Dahlstrom                                                                                                  
Representative Mark Neuman                                                                                                      
Representative Kurt Olson                                                                                                       
Representative Sharon Cissna                                                                                                    
Representative Woodie Salmon                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
HOUSE BILL NO. 4002                                                                                                             
"An  Act  establishing  the Alaska  resource  rebate  program  and                                                              
relating to the program; and providing for an effective date."                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 4002(CRA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 4003                                                                                                             
"An Act  making supplemental appropriations  to the  Alaska Energy                                                              
Authority   for   power   cost    equalization;   making   special                                                              
appropriations   to  the   Department  of   Revenue  and   to  the                                                              
Department of Health  and Social Services for the  Alaska resource                                                              
rebate program;  making a special appropriation to  the Department                                                              
of Revenue  for the  payment of certain  shared taxes  relating to                                                              
aviation fuel; and providing for an effective date."                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 4003(CRA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
BILL: HB4002                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: RESOURCE REBATE PROGRAM FOR RESIDENTS                                                                              
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
07/09/08       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
07/09/08       (H)       CRA, FIN                                                                                               
07/11/08       (H)       CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124                                                                              
07/11/08       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
07/11/08       (H)       MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                            
07/15/08       (H)       CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124                                                                              
07/15/08       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
07/15/08       (H)       MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                            
07/17/08       (H)       CRA AT 4:00 PM Anch LIO Conf Rm                                                                        
07/17/08       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
07/17/08       (H)       MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                            
07/22/08       (H)       CRA AT 2:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
07/22/08       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
07/22/08       (H)       MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                            
07/23/08       (H)       CRA AT 10:00 AM BARNES 124                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB4003                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: APPROP: ENERGY RELIEF/REBATE/FUEL TAX                                                                              
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
07/09/08       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
07/09/08       (H)       CRA, FIN                                                                                               
07/11/08       (H)       CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124                                                                              
07/11/08       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
07/11/08       (H)       MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                            
07/15/08       (H)       CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124                                                                              
07/15/08       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
07/15/08       (H)       MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                            
07/17/08       (H)       CRA AT 4:00 PM Anch LIO Conf Rm                                                                        
07/17/08       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
07/17/08       (H)       MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                            
07/22/08       (H)       CRA AT 2:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
07/22/08       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
07/22/08       (H)       MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                            
07/23/08       (H)       CRA AT 10:00 AM BARNES 124                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JULIE KITKA, President                                                                                                          
Alaska Federation of Natives (AFN)                                                                                              
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on behalf of AFN during the                                                                    
hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
RALPH ANDERSON, CEO                                                                                                             
Bristol Bay Native Association (BBNA);                                                                                          
Chair, Alaska Federation of Natives (AFN) Working Group                                                                         
Dillingham, Alaska                                                                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on behalf of BBNA and the AFN                                                                  
Working Group during the hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
BRENDA REBNE, Vice President                                                                                                    
Corporate Affairs                                                                                                               
Ahtna, Inc.                                                                                                                     
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified on  behalf of Ahtna,  Inc., during                                                            
the hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
JANIE LEASK, President                                                                                                          
First Alaskans Institute (FAI)                                                                                                  
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:    Testified  on behalf  of  FAI  during  the                                                            
hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BRYCE WRIGLEY                                                                                                                   
Delta Junction                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  on behalf  of himself  during the                                                            
hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DICK BRICKLEY                                                                                                                   
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  on behalf  of himself  during the                                                            
hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BUZZ OTIS                                                                                                                       
North Pole, Alaska                                                                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  on behalf  of himself  during the                                                            
hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BUD ROSEN                                                                                                                       
North Pole, Alaska                                                                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  on behalf  of himself  during the                                                            
hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
PATRICE GRIFFIN, Director                                                                                                       
Head Start                                                                                                                      
Child Development Division                                                                                                      
Rural Alaska Community Action Program (RuRAL CAP)                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified during the hearing on  HB 4002 and                                                            
HB 4003.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
JERALD BROWN, Vice President                                                                                                    
Bering Straits Native Corporation (BSNC)                                                                                        
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  on  behalf  of BSNC  during  the                                                            
hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
TONY WEYIOUANNA, SR., Member                                                                                                    
Board of Directors                                                                                                              
Bering Straits Native Corporation (BSNC)                                                                                        
Shishmaref, Alaska                                                                                                              
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  on  behalf  of BSNC  during  the                                                            
hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DAN DUAME, Member                                                                                                               
Association of Alaska Housing Authorities (AAHA)                                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  on behalf of  AAHA in  support of                                                            
HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
PAUL D. KENDALL                                                                                                                 
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  on behalf  of himself  during the                                                            
hearing on HB 4003 and HB 4003.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
KEN FISHER                                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified on behalf of  himself regarding HB
4002, during the hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BARB NICKELS, Program Director                                                                                                  
Bering Strait Development Council (BSDC)                                                                                        
Nome, Alaska                                                                                                                    
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  on  behalf  of BSDC  during  the                                                            
hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT KITH, Chair                                                                                                              
Kawerak Board                                                                                                                   
Elim, Alaska                                                                                                                    
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified on  behalf of  the Kawerak  Board                                                            
during the hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
PETER NAOROZ, CEO                                                                                                               
Kootznoowoo, Inc.                                                                                                               
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:  Testified  on behalf  of Kootznoowoo,  Inc.,                                                            
during the hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MEERA KOHLER, President/CEO                                                                                                     
Alaska Village Electric Cooperative (AVEC)                                                                                      
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  on  behalf  of AVEC  during  the                                                            
hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
APRIL FERGUSON, Acting Chief Operating Officer (COO)                                                                            
Bristol Bay Native Corporation (BBNC)                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  on behalf of  BBNC in  support of                                                            
HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
TIEL SMITH, Manager                                                                                                             
Land and Resource Department                                                                                                    
Bristol Bay Native Corporation (BBNC)                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  on  behalf  of BBNC  during  the                                                            
hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
HEIDI VEACH                                                                                                                     
Copper Center, Alaska                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  on behalf  of herself  during the                                                            
hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DAVE TRANUHAN                                                                                                                   
Bethel, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  on behalf  of himself  in support                                                            
of HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
RICH STASENKO, Treasurer                                                                                                        
City of Shishmaref                                                                                                              
Shishmaref, Alaska                                                                                                              
POSITION  STATEMENT:     Testified  on  behalf  of   the  City  of                                                            
Shishmaref during the hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
JIM WILLIAMS                                                                                                                    
Metlakatla, Alaska                                                                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  on behalf  of himself  during the                                                            
hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
TOM LAKOSH                                                                                                                      
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  on behalf  of himself  during the                                                            
hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ANN MALLARD, Principal                                                                                                          
Eagle Community School                                                                                                          
Eagle, Alaska                                                                                                                   
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  on  behalf  of the  Eagle  River                                                            
School district and  herself during the hearing on  HB 4002 and HB
4003.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
JASON METROKIN, Director                                                                                                        
Shareholder & Corporate Relations                                                                                               
Bristol Bay Native Corporation (BBNC)                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  on behalf of  BBNC in  support of                                                            
HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SARA WILLSON                                                                                                                    
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  on behalf  of herself  during the                                                            
hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DOUG ISAACSON, Mayor                                                                                                            
City of North Pole                                                                                                              
North Pole, Alaska                                                                                                              
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified on  behalf of  the City of  North                                                            
Pole during the hearing on HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MARY ANN PEASE, Consultant                                                                                                      
MAP Consulting                                                                                                                  
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  on behalf  of Bristol  Bay Native                                                            
Corporation (BBNC) in support of HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
RANDY RUARO, Special Staff Assistant                                                                                            
Office of the Governor                                                                                                          
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:     During  hearing  of  HB   4002,  answered                                                            
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
JERRY BURNETT, Director                                                                                                         
Administrative Services Division                                                                                                
Department of Revenue                                                                                                           
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:     During  hearing  of  HB   4002,  answered                                                            
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  GABRIELLE   LeDOUX  called   the  House  Community   and                                                            
Regional Affairs  Standing Committee meeting to order  at 10:02:44                                                            
AM.   Representatives  Olson, Salmon,  Cissna, Dahlstrom,  Neuman,                                                            
Fairclough,  and  LeDoux  were  present  at  the  call  to  order.                                                              
Representatives  Doll, Guttenberg, Thomas,  and Gara were  also in                                                              
attendance.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HB4002-RESOURCE REBATE PROGRAM FOR RESIDENTS                                                                                  
HB4003-APPROP: ENERGY RELIEF/REBATE/FUEL TAX                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:02:59 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR    LeDOUX   announced    that    the   committee    would                                                              
simultaneously  hear HOUSE  BILL  NO. 4002.  "An Act  establishing                                                              
the Alaska  resource rebate program  and relating to  the program;                                                              
and providing  for an  effective date." and  HOUSE BILL  NO. 4003,                                                              
"An Act  making supplemental appropriations  to the  Alaska Energy                                                              
Authority   for   power   cost    equalization;   making   special                                                              
appropriations   to  the   Department  of   Revenue  and   to  the                                                              
Department of Health  and Social Services for the  Alaska resource                                                              
rebate program;  making a special appropriation to  the Department                                                              
of Revenue  for the  payment of certain  shared taxes  relating to                                                              
aviation fuel; and providing for an effective date."                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LeDOUX  said she  would be  limiting public testimony  to                                                              
two minutes per person.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:03:57 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH   moved  [to   place  HB  4002]   before  the                                                              
committee.  [No objection was stated.]                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH   moved  [to   place]  HB  4003   before  the                                                              
committee.  [No objection was stated.]                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 10:05:40 AM to 10:06:53 AM.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LeDOUX  explained that  the committee was  meeting during                                                              
a break on the House floor.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
10:07:14 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
JULIE  KITKA,  President,  Alaska  Federation  of  Natives  (AFN),                                                              
asked Co-Chair LeDoux's  indulgence in allowing her  over the two-                                                              
minute speaking limit,  because of the range of issues  she had to                                                              
address and the size of her constituency.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LeDOUX granted her request.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KITKA said  AFN represents  approximately 20  percent of  the                                                              
population  in  Alaska.   Its  members  are concerned  about  high                                                              
energy  prices and  how they  impact  all the  communities in  the                                                              
state, not  just the rural areas.   Ms. Kitka relayed  that AFN is                                                              
committed  to working with  state, federal,  and private  entities                                                              
to  resolve issues.    She  noted that  as  major  land owners  in                                                              
Alaska,  AFN   has  resources  that   can  be  developed   and  is                                                              
interested in  bringing those resources  to market.  She  said AFN                                                              
has    developed    incredible     management    capability    and                                                              
organizational  reach  over  the   last  35  years,  in  order  to                                                              
implement  solutions  and  partnerships.    Ms.  Kitka  said  that                                                              
capability and reach  can extend to help solve  "what is affecting                                                              
not  only Alaskans  but  all citizens  of  the  United States,  in                                                              
fact,  world-wide."     The  interest   in  helping   find  energy                                                              
solutions extends  beyond the state's federally  recognized tribes                                                              
to regional housing authorities and travel consortiums she said.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:10:42 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KITKA commended  the  House  Community and  Regional  Affairs                                                              
Standing  Committee for  taking on  this issue,  the magnitude  of                                                              
which  is greater  than any  she has seen  in her  lifetime.   She                                                              
said AFN  believes that  the crisis at  hand will restructure  the                                                              
state's and the  nation's economy.  The high price  of oil is here                                                              
to stay,  she said; therefore, it  is imperative to  help Alaskans                                                              
adjust to  the high prices  and get some  support, and to  get the                                                              
different  sectors in  the state  to  work together  to that  end.                                                              
She  opined,  "The  state  government   is  at  the  forefront  in                                                              
responsibility  in helping bring  us forward  so that we  have the                                                              
proper resources  and the proper institutional structures  to deal                                                              
with this change."                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
10:12:32 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. KITKA said  the first steps  to be taken must be  to stabilize                                                              
energy  costs  and  provide  immediate   relief  for  individuals,                                                              
families, and communities  who are hard hit by  high energy costs.                                                              
Communities  cannot be  allowed  to collapse  under the  extremely                                                              
high costs.   She emphasized the  far-reaching effect of  the high                                                              
cost of energy,  naming health clinics and schools  - every sector                                                              
in  which  people  have  invested   state,  federal,  and  private                                                              
resources -  as being at risk  of imploding unless the  support is                                                              
there to  "shore things  up."  Ms.  Kitka said no  one a  year ago                                                              
could  have imagined  today's  energy situation,  thus  no one  is                                                              
prepared  for it, and  not everyone  has the  resources to  absorb                                                              
those costs  without flinching.   Ms. Kitka  said a large  part of                                                              
the population  does not have  the cash  resource to deal  with an                                                              
energy crisis.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:14:14 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KITKA relayed  that AFN  is  asking the  legislature to  take                                                              
bold  measures,  which would  include  the following:    providing                                                              
immediate relief  for individuals  and families, investing  in the                                                              
state,  strengthening   the  power   cost  equalization   program,                                                              
supporting  the  buying  down  of   debt  in  rural  utilities  to                                                              
stabilize  utilities,   putting  caps  on  prices   to  keep  fuel                                                              
affordable,   and  expanding   and   supporting  fuel   purchasing                                                              
transportation  and cooperative  purchase agreements.   Ms.  Kitka                                                              
noted  that another  of  her  positions is  as  one  of the  seven                                                              
commissioners of the  Denali Commission.  One of  the programs the                                                              
commission  has had in  the last  10 years  is building  bulk fuel                                                              
storage tanks,  as well  as upgrading rural  utilities.   She said                                                              
AFN  supports the  family fuel  subsidy program  and commends  the                                                              
governor  and   the  administration   for  putting   forward  some                                                              
proposals.    She  said  AFN  would  be  glad  to  work  with  the                                                              
committee on any technical changes to those proposals.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KITKA  concluded by  urging  the  legislature not  to  ignore                                                              
investing  in alternative  and  renewable  energy,  but rather  to                                                              
"beef  up" a  fund  that could  address  that  issue, because  she                                                              
explained  there is  a  lot of  lead  time in  alternative  energy                                                              
projects.    She also  urged  the  legislature  to invest  in  the                                                              
University  of Alaska, because  the best  minds in the  university                                                              
need to  begin working on long-term  energy solutions, as  well as                                                              
scaling  up some  of  the  new development  that  can  be used  in                                                              
Arctic conditions  and small  communities.   An investment  in the                                                              
university,  she said,  will pay  great dividends.   Finally,  she                                                              
recommended  that the  legislature  consider  providing relief  to                                                              
air carriers.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:17:12 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH  indicated   that  she  and  a  couple  other                                                              
legislators may  be available to meet  with those who do  not have                                                              
the opportunity to  share all their thoughts on  this issue, after                                                              
which she could report back to the committee.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:17:39 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA  mentioned an amendment that  would allocate                                                              
funds to distribute  resources based on "heating  degree days" and                                                              
average regional  costs of one gallon  of heating fuel  or British                                                              
thermal unit  (Btu) equivalent.   She said  there is a  chart that                                                              
shows a needs-based  distribution per region and  community, which                                                              
would be "in  addition to the base  amount of the rebate  that the                                                              
people would  get."  She  asked Ms. Kitka  how AFN would  react to                                                              
such an amendment.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
10:18:59 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. KITKA  responded that AFN sees  the need for support  not only                                                              
for electrical  costs, but  also for heating  fuel costs.   Trying                                                              
to "equalize  that  through the  state" and get  base support  for                                                              
everyone  would  be  welcome,  she   said.    She  reiterated  how                                                              
important  this  issue is  for  the  legislature to  address,  and                                                              
urged that body  to "take this historic opportunity  and anchor in                                                              
supports."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:20:26 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. KITKA,  in response to  Representative Salmon,  explained that                                                              
the fourth  point listed on her  handout - "Provide a  family fuel                                                              
subsidy  to help meet  the immediate  crisis"  - means an  overall                                                              
policy  choice   of  providing  direct  relief  to   families  and                                                              
communities that  will not have the  cash to pay their  bills.  It                                                              
not only  applies to  PCE, but  also to  home heating oil  support                                                              
and  initiatives.     The  fourth   point  emphasizes   relief  to                                                              
families,  not just  to  institutions, governments,  schools,  and                                                              
health clinics.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:21:23 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
RALPH  ANDERSON,  CEO,  Bristol  Bay  Native  Association  (BBNA),                                                              
Chair, Alaska  Federation  of Natives (AFN)  Working Group,  noted                                                              
that the  AFN Working  Group is  the group that  came up  with the                                                              
points that  were touched upon in  Ms. Kitka's oral  testimony and                                                              
are  expanded  upon in  her  written  testimony.   He  echoed  Ms.                                                              
Kitka's expressed  appreciation of the legislature's  attention to                                                              
the energy crisis  and her remarks about the  widespread nature of                                                              
the crisis.   The  Working Group  was initiated  from the  premise                                                              
that the  high energy prices are  here to stay, and  he emphasized                                                              
that  accepting that  is the  only way  to tackle  the issues  and                                                              
come up with viable  solutions.  Today's crisis is  not that there                                                              
is a shortage  of fuel, as was  the case in the 70s,  but that the                                                              
price of fuel  is so high.   Mr. Anderson said he knows  people in                                                              
his region  who are  applying for jobs  in Anchorage  because they                                                              
are  "deathly afraid"  of  the fuel  costs  they  will be  facing.                                                              
Programs,  such  as  those  through  the  Alaska  Housing  Finance                                                              
Corporation  (AHFC)  and the  PCE  program  are very  helpful,  he                                                              
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:24:25 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ANDERSON next  focused his  remarks related  to Bristol  Bay.                                                              
He said a regional  summit was held in Bristol Bay  on July 7, and                                                              
a number  of  regional organizations  participated.   A number  of                                                              
recommendations  were   made.    Regarding  the   proposed  $1,200                                                              
rebate, Mr.  Anderson said BBNA  would support the  possibility of                                                              
an index mechanism.   He said in one village  residents are paying                                                              
$8.00 a  gallon for fuel,  and in such a  case, $500 is  not going                                                              
to go very far.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:25:17 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ANDERSON,  regarding  PCE, said  [BBNA]  supports  expansion,                                                              
increasing  the   threshold  from  500  to  750   kilowatts.    He                                                              
mentioned  an "income  disregard  provision."   Regarding  heating                                                              
fuel, he said BBNA  would like to establish a base  of 500 gallons                                                              
of fuel  as part of the  PCE program.   He proposed that  the base                                                              
cost  of fuel  be  set at  $4.00  a gallon  and  be calculated  on                                                              
location  or regional  specific  basis,  and include  an  indexing                                                              
mechanism.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LeDOUX                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ANDERSON said  he  would submit  a copy  of  the Bristol  Bay                                                              
Energy Crisis  Recovery and  Implementation plan.   He  noted that                                                              
he  is  the  chair  of  the  Bristol  Bay  Partnership,  which  is                                                              
comprised  of executives  from  the  five major  organizations  in                                                              
Bristol Bay.   He  indicated that  some of  the information  he is                                                              
providing today is  the result of the partnership's  work begun in                                                              
January and approved in April.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:27:10 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
BRENDA  REBNE, Vice  President,  Corporate  Affairs, Ahtna,  Inc.,                                                              
noted that  Ahtna, Inc.,  is one of  the 13 regional  corporations                                                              
established  under   the  Alaska  Native  Claims   Settlement  Act                                                              
(ANCSA).   She said  there are eight  federally recognized  tribes                                                              
in her  region, all  of which are  on the  existing road  system -                                                              
the Parks and Glenn Highways.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  REBNE,  in  regard  to  HB  4002,  said  Ahtna,  Inc.,  fully                                                              
supports the governor's  efforts to offer immediate  relief to the                                                              
residents  of  Alaska.    She stated  that  Alaska  residents  are                                                              
suffering,  particularly  the  ones   residing  outside  of  urban                                                              
centers and  those experiencing a loss  of quality of life  due to                                                              
the pressures  of choosing between  heating their homes  and other                                                              
necessities   such  as   paying  for   food,  transportation   and                                                              
clothing.   She related  that the  vast majority  of homes  in the                                                              
Ahtna,  Inc., region  are not  heated by  electricity, but  rather                                                              
utilize  wood, oil  stoves,  and  furnaces.   While  fuel and  gas                                                              
prices  have almost  doubled, incomes  have  not, she  said.   Ms.                                                              
Rebne related  that currently  in Copper  Center, heating  fuel is                                                              
$4.86 if a person  buys 300 gallons at once.  Even  with an energy                                                              
efficient stove,  she said, the fuel  might last two months,  at a                                                              
cost of a  little over $700 a  month, on top of mortgage  or rent.                                                              
Ms.  Rebne remarked  that she  thinks that  number is  low -  that                                                              
some people  are paying up  to $1,100 a  month just to  heat their                                                              
homes.   She  pointed  out that  with a  median  income in  Copper                                                              
Center of  approximately $31,000, and  other factors, such  as the                                                              
cost of electricity,  it is clear that a significant  portion of a                                                              
person's income is spent on basic energy use.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. REBNE stated,  "While we recognize that the  rebate program is                                                              
likely  a  temporary  fix,  its immediate  need  by  residents  of                                                              
Alaska cannot  be minimized or stressed  enough.  With  that said,                                                              
it is  our hope that this  legislature will support  this program,                                                              
while continuing  to pursue  long-term solutions  to the  existing                                                              
energy  crisis in  the  form of  enhancing  proactive pursuits  of                                                              
alternative  and  renewable  energy   programs,  both  within  and                                                              
between the public and private sectors."                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:29:51 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. REBNE  next discussed HB  4003, paraphrasing from  her written                                                              
testimony.   She said while Ahtna,  Inc., recognizes the  value of                                                              
the current  PCE program  and supports  increasing the  budget, it                                                              
also  asks   the  legislature   to  address   the  needs   of  the                                                              
communities  on the  road system  - and other  communities  - that                                                              
currently  do not benefit  from  the program.   The residents  not                                                              
currently  eligible for  the PCE  program often  live on the  road                                                              
system, are  several hundred miles  form the urban hub  zones, and                                                              
must truck fuel in at great expense.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. REBNE  echoed the testimony of  Mr. Anderson that the  cost of                                                              
fuel is  forcing people to  move to urban  areas.  As  people move                                                              
away, she  said, businesses already  suffering from the  high cost                                                              
of energy  are losing their  economic base.   Health care  is also                                                              
being negatively  impacted.  Clinics  are generally  nonprofit and                                                              
must make  difficult decisions related  to keeping doors  open and                                                              
cutting  programs.     Ms.  Rebne   said  this  is   unacceptable,                                                              
considering  the  current  financial  richness  of  Alaska.    She                                                              
stated,  "We support  reinstating  the eligibility  of  businesses                                                              
and  clinics  while  increasing   the  household  limit  from  500                                                              
kilowatt  hours to  [750  kilowatt  hours] to  at  least meet  the                                                              
national average.   We also urge  this legislature ...  to address                                                              
the energy needs  of those individuals and those  communities that                                                              
are currently under utilities not eligible for the PCE program."                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. REBNE  said Ahtna,  Inc., supports  the proposal submitted  by                                                              
BBNA,  which  she   said  is  called  the  "Alaska   Heating  Cost                                                              
Equalization Program."   She said this program  addresses the cost                                                              
of  diesel fuel  for  Alaskans paying  home  heating costs  higher                                                              
than the averages  paid in Anchorage, Fairbanks, and  Juneau.  She                                                              
stated,  "While  the PCE  program  only addresses  the  electrical                                                              
portion of energy  costs in rural Alaska for  those under eligible                                                              
utilities,  this would be  a first  step and would  go a  long way                                                              
towards  recognizing   the  energy  needs  of  all   Alaskans  and                                                              
creating  a  truly  equal  ... program  from  which  all  Alaskans                                                              
benefit."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. REBNE  concluded that Alaska  is currently in the  position to                                                              
make a  financial commitment to  its residents by  envisioning the                                                              
state's  future   energy  needs  and  beginning   the  process  of                                                              
utilizing   the  state's   resources  in   all  forms  of   energy                                                              
production.     She   invited  the   legislature   to  visit   the                                                              
communities  that  make  up  Ahtna,   Inc.,  in  order  to  better                                                              
understand the  energy challenges faced by  road-based communities                                                              
and to  see first-hand  the struggle  its residents  face  to meet                                                              
the demands of the high cost of energy.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:33:26 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
JANIE LEASK, President,  First Alaskans Institute  (FAI), told the                                                              
committee that  FAI is a  statewide Native nonprofit  organization                                                              
with a mission  to advance Alaska Native people  through community                                                              
engagement,   information   and   research,   collaboration,   and                                                              
leadership  development.  She  related that  FAI housed  an Alaska                                                              
Native  Policy Center  within  its organization,  and  it is  that                                                              
center which prepared the majority of the testimony.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. LEASK stated  support of immediate relief to  Alaskans to help                                                              
offset  the  cost of  energy  -  specifically to  rural  Alaskans.                                                              
Furthermore,  she stated that  FAI believes  that action  needs to                                                              
be taken  now, before  first frost occurs  in rural  Alaska, while                                                              
at  the same  time,  the state  should  be looking  for  long-term                                                              
solutions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:35:24 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. LEASK  spoke of  a non-scientific survey  done in  seven rural                                                              
communities, using  Anchorage as a baseline.   The survey verified                                                              
that those  small communities  are poor  by Western standards  and                                                              
their  cost of  living is  high.   Rural villages,  she said,  use                                                              
less energy and  pay more for it; the median income  is well below                                                              
that  of Anchorage  and the  state average.   Ms.  Leask said  the                                                              
unemployment rate  is above the  state average; however,  she said                                                              
unemployment is not  really counted in rural Alaska,  because most                                                              
people  there are  not  out looking  for  jobs  because there  are                                                              
none.   With PCE,  the rural  villages surveyed  pay from  0.19 to                                                              
0.30 cents  per kilowatt hour (kWh),  well above the 0.09  to 0.10                                                              
cents that Anchorage  households pay.  Without PCE,  they would be                                                              
paying  about 0.50  cents per kWh.   Regarding  heating fuel,  Ms.                                                              
Leask reported  that the  state averages  about $5.51  per gallon,                                                              
but the  price in  some areas can  cost up  to $11.00  per gallon.                                                              
The  state  average for  a  gallon  of  gas  is $5.35,  while  the                                                              
villages surveyed  can pay up to  $8.35 a gallon.  Ms.  Leask said                                                              
certain goods  were sampled as well,  such a food basket,  and she                                                              
said the  rural communities pay  up to $120  more to buy  the same                                                              
basket of goods.   She pointed out that $1,200  given to residents                                                              
of  Alaska will  certainly  have less  purchasing  power in  rural                                                              
Alaska than it does  in any other area of the state.   The cost of                                                              
travel was  also compared, she said,  and it was found  to be much                                                              
higher for rural travelers to come into Anchorage, for example.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:39:00 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  LEASK reinforced  the comments  of  previous testifiers  that                                                              
people  are   forced  to  make   choices  on  what  to   give  up.                                                              
Subsistence, she  said, is absolutely critical in  rural Alaska to                                                              
help supplement  the cost of  food; store-bought food  is becoming                                                              
increasingly less affordable.   She said it is easy  for people to                                                              
suggest that  rural inhabitants simply  move to more  urban areas,                                                              
but when  populations move into urban  areas, there is  a cost and                                                              
impact   of  infrastructure   associated   with  such   migration.                                                              
Moreover, rural people  do not want to leave  their homelands, Ms.                                                              
Leask stated.   Thus, the  state needs  to "take the  higher road"                                                              
and work with  both urban and rural  areas of the state  to figure                                                              
out  "what   we  collectively  can   do,"  because  there   is  an                                                              
interdependence   between  rural   and   urban  communities,   she                                                              
concluded.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:40:52 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. LEASK,  in response to  Representative Cissna,  suggested that                                                              
information  regarding migration  numbers could  be found  through                                                              
the Alaska  Native Tribal Health  Consortium.  She  indicated that                                                              
the  migration has  not just  been  happening this  year, but  has                                                              
been occurring  over time.  She  talked about schools  closing and                                                              
people moving to regional hubs, including Bethel.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
10:43:48 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
BRYCE  WRIGLEY,   testifying  on  behalf  of  himself,   told  the                                                              
committee that he  is a farmer in Delta Junction.   He stated that                                                              
it  is  difficult   for  him  to  testify  against   the  proposed                                                              
legislation,  because it  would put  money in  his pocket,  but he                                                              
questioned  what  good  such  a  rebate would  actually  do.    He                                                              
pointed out  that $1,200  would buy  about 230  gallons of  fuel -                                                              
enough to last  a month and a  half.  He stated, "If  we're really                                                              
living  that  close  to  extinction,  then  we're  only  going  to                                                              
forestall the  inevitable by about a  month a half."   Mr. Wrigley                                                              
said  he  would rather  see  the  $32 million  that  the  proposed                                                              
program  will   cost  be  directed   to  a  focused   approach  to                                                              
developing  a renewable  fuel industry,  especially  that type  of                                                              
renewable  fuel that  can  be "grown"  in the  state.   He  talked                                                              
about  the biomass  of  straw, grass,  and  hay.   He said  Alaska                                                              
farmers can  also grow much more  grain that could be  utilized in                                                              
the state,  but have been unable  to export that grain  because of                                                              
a lack  of transportation  infrastructure.  He  asked, "So,  if we                                                              
... grow  more than  we can use  and we can't  export it,  why not                                                              
use it  for fuel  as well?"   Mr. Wrigley  said barley  is cheaper                                                              
than fuel  oil to heat, cleaner  than wood; however,  he indicated                                                              
that  personal  prejudices  about  using  feed  for  fuel  prevent                                                              
access to  grants from  Alaska Energy  Authority (AEA)  and Alaska                                                              
Industrial  Development and  Export Authority  (AIDEA).   He said,                                                              
"This idea  is like a  logger being opposed  to cutting  trees for                                                              
firewood because it ought to be used for lumber."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. WRIGLEY  noted that  canola is being  grown in Delta  Junction                                                              
currently, and this  winter, the feasibility of  making bio diesel                                                              
will  be investigated.   Unfortunately,  he said,  such an  effort                                                              
requires money,  and the  grants available  seem to be  restricted                                                              
to  electrical generation.    Because  of the  lack  of access  to                                                              
those grants,  he said, he  has to proceed  at much  smaller scale                                                              
and pace than desired in order to stay within budget.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. WRIGLEY  stated his  belief that  a directive  to use  the $32                                                              
million specifically  to promote renewable energy on  the farms in                                                              
Alaska would  actually benefit  the people of  Alaska more  in the                                                              
long run by providing  a less expensive fuel  alternative to high-                                                              
price fuel oil.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:45:55 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH  noted for  the record  that for the  proposed                                                              
$1,200  distribution,  there  are  three  different  fiscal  notes                                                              
totaling over $1 billion.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:46:16 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DICK  BRICKLEY,   testifying  on  behalf  of   himself,  expressed                                                              
appreciation  of  the  legislature's  efforts  in  addressing  the                                                              
serious  [energy crisis]  issue.   He  stated his  support of  the                                                              
$1,200 rebate,  and said he views  it as helping to cover  some of                                                              
the expenses that  people have driving their vehicles,  as well as                                                              
the increased cost of food.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BRICKLEY said  Governor  Palin mentioned  she  would like  to                                                              
come up with a  significant energy plan for Alaska,  and he stated                                                              
that  he is positive  that  can be done.   He  expressed his  hope                                                              
that  the state  would  investigate  hydro, wind,  solar,  natural                                                              
gas,  coal gasification,  biomass, geothermal,  and nuclear  power                                                              
options.   That, he  said, would pay  tremendous dividends  in the                                                              
long  run, even  though the  $1,200  is needed  now for  immediate                                                              
help.   He encouraged  the committee to  "pass this,"  saying that                                                              
the  amount involved  is  a  small drop  in  the bucket.    People                                                              
across  the  state   are  feeling  the  effects   of  energy  cost                                                              
inflation.   Having heard  the previous  testifiers, Mr.  Brickley                                                              
said  he  realizes  the  problem   is  even  worse  in  the  rural                                                              
communities.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 10:49:56 AM to 10:50:34 AM.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
10:51:07 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
BUZZ  OTIS, offered  information  regarding  his personal  history                                                              
and  work background,  noting his  involvement  in community  work                                                              
and  experience in  the  field of  construction.   He  said he  is                                                              
currently working to  help the City of North Pole  in its economic                                                              
development  efforts,  but thwarting  that  is  the high  cost  of                                                              
energy  - a  problem  Mr. Otis  said is  experienced  not only  in                                                              
rural areas, but  also in the Interior and in  "other places along                                                              
the road system."                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTIS  said  the idea  of  a  cash  payment is  good,  but  he                                                              
suggested  the  legislature  should consider  PCE  for  "immediate                                                              
effect."   He said  along the road  system, electricity  costs are                                                              
close to  25 cents per  kWh, and it would  be great if  that could                                                              
be  subsidized in  some  way.   Mr. Otis  said  he thinks  another                                                              
consideration  should  be  to  cap   the  price  of  fuel  at  the                                                              
refineries  at $2.50  a  gallon, with  the  state subsidizing  the                                                              
difference.   He opined  that Alaskans should  not be  paying some                                                              
of the  highest costs  in the  nation while  the state  enjoys its                                                              
current surplus.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:54:10 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTIS  related that his wife  owns a self-storage  business and                                                              
has noted  that in  the last  couple weeks,  three customers  have                                                              
announced they  are leaving town -  not because they want  to, but                                                              
because of  the high  cost of living  in the area.   He  urged the                                                              
legislature  to help Alaskans,  to explore  ideas, to  use vision,                                                              
and  to come  up with  short-,  medium-  and long-term  solutions.                                                              
Mr. Otis  concluded by  expressing appreciation  for the  work the                                                              
legislature is doing.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:54:40 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
BUD ROSEN,  related that he  has lived  in Alaska since  1967, and                                                              
has employed  a lot of  people in the  construction business.   He                                                              
said  he has  gone  from  hiring as  many  as 35  employees,  plus                                                              
subcontractors, to  zero employees and just a  few subcontractors.                                                              
He observed  that the price of  oil is costing home  owners almost                                                              
as much  as their  house payments  during the  winter.   He added,                                                              
"So, we need to get a handle on getting our energy costs down."                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:56:25 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
PATRICE   GRIFFIN,  Director,   Head   Start,  Child   Development                                                              
Division,  Rural  Alaska  Community Action  Program  (RuRAL  CAP),                                                              
testifying on behalf  of RuRAL CAP, noted that  that entity serves                                                              
806 children  in rural communities  throughout Alaska, as  well as                                                              
500 children  in its Parents As  Teachers program and  30 children                                                              
in  its Anchorage  Child  Development  Center.   She  thanked  the                                                              
legislature  for  the funding  the  Head Start  programs  received                                                              
this year.   She said  the programs continue  to see  increases in                                                              
operation  costs with fuel  price increases,  and those  increases                                                              
affect  Head Start's  ability to  pay for  heat, electricity,  and                                                              
travel  to  rural  communities.    Ms.  Griffin  listed  the  many                                                              
services that  Head Start provides  beyond preparing  children for                                                              
kindergarten,  including:    employment for  hundreds  of  people;                                                              
health  screenings for  children;  teacher  certification and  the                                                              
support of  continuing education;  parent education;  and services                                                              
promoting healthy families.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. GRIFFIN  said she  is testifying  today regarding  the effects                                                              
of increased fuel  and electricity costs, not only  on Head Start,                                                              
but also  on the families  involved in  the programs  it services.                                                              
She said  there have been situations  when some of the  Head Start                                                              
communities have run  out of fuel in the winter,  and families and                                                              
staff  have been  forced  to drive  on  snow  machines into  local                                                              
hubs, such  as Bethel, to  purchase fuel  for their homes  and for                                                              
Head  Start  buildings in  rural  communities.   The  stress  that                                                              
results from  the rising cost of  fuel, food, and  electricity and                                                              
the hard  choices that  those rising  costs bring  about does  not                                                              
contribute  to the health  of families.   As  a result  of funding                                                              
cuts  and increased  operation  costs,  Head Start  programs  have                                                              
lost  teachers,  cut positions  for  children,  reduced  operating                                                              
hours  and  days,  slashed  transportation  services,  reduced  or                                                              
eliminated employees'  salaries and  health benefits,  and trimmed                                                              
family support services.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:59:35 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. GRIFFIN stated  that any support that expands  PCE "to include                                                              
the  community  buildings"  will  provide  the  much-needed  funds                                                              
necessary  for Head  Start to continue  its work.   Without  those                                                              
funds,  she warned,  the cuts  that would  have to  be made  would                                                              
cause  a "domino effect  to other  parts of  the state's  delivery                                                              
system,"  including  increased   demands  on  the  social  service                                                              
programs and the education system.  Ms. Griffin concluded:                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     We view  our early  childhood programs  as an  important                                                                   
     component  of the  state's  infrastructure, and  endorse                                                                   
     and support  HB 4002  and [HB]  4003, ... [which  allow]                                                                   
     us  to serve  young  children  and families  across  the                                                                   
     state  educationally,  economically,   health-wise,  and                                                                   
     culturally.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
11:02:17 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
JERALD BROWN,  Vice President,  Bering Straits Native  Corporation                                                              
(BSNC), testified on  behalf of BSNC.  He noted that  he is also a                                                              
member of  the Chamber  of Commerce and  the Nome Common  Council,                                                              
although  he  is  not  testifying  on their  behalf.    Mr.  Brown                                                              
related that  BSNC is headquartered  in Nome and has  over 600,000                                                              
shareholders  in  the Bering  Straits  Region.   He  said  several                                                              
years  ago  BSNC   began  looking  for  ways  to   correct  energy                                                              
inefficiencies  -  replacing inefficient  boilers,  tightening  up                                                              
the seal  on buildings,  and replacing  windows  and siding  - but                                                              
that was  not enough.   Approximately one  year ago, the  board of                                                              
BSNC  authorized   the  installation   of  solar  panels   on  its                                                              
corporate  office  building -  a  project  that was  completed  in                                                              
March  [2008].   He said it  is one  of the  largest solar  panels                                                              
outside of  the railbelt in  Alaska - about  17 kilowatts.   Next,                                                              
BSNC  partnered  with Sitnasuak  Native  Corporation  - a  village                                                              
corporation in  Nome - to  invest $6 million  in a wind  farm just                                                              
outside of Nome.   He reported that the project  is well underway,                                                              
and Nome  expects to  be generating power  by October  or November                                                              
of  this year.   He  offered further  details  regarding the  wind                                                              
farm,  noting that  the  final area  selected  for  the farm  will                                                              
require  a  $700,000  power  line  extension,  and  he  asked  the                                                              
legislature to consider funding part of that extension cost.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
11:05:53 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
TONY WEYIOUANNA,  SR., Member, Board of Directors,  Bering Straits                                                              
Native  Corporation (BSNC),  stated that  BSNC supports  "bringing                                                              
back the  full funding  of the  PCE program."   He explained  that                                                              
means  "to include  everybody to  receive  the benefit,  including                                                              
the clinics."   He  offered his  understanding  that when  the PCE                                                              
program  first  started,  the  clinics were  not  included.    Mr.                                                              
Weyiouanna  said  BSNC supports  the  state's commitment  to  fund                                                              
alternative energy  projects throughout Alaska, and  would like to                                                              
encourage the  state to consider  providing funding  or partnering                                                              
with existing  projects or those  projects just starting  up, such                                                              
as the  one previously mentioned  by Mr.  Brown.  He  relayed that                                                              
BSNC  supports   the  $1,200  rebate   program  proposed   by  the                                                              
governor.   Furthermore, BSNC supports  programs that  would lower                                                              
the  cost  of  gas  and  oil,  thereby   decreasing  the  cost  of                                                              
utilities.   Mr. Weyiouanna  noted that  he had submitted  written                                                              
testimony [included in the committee packet].                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
11:09:02 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DAN  DUAME,  Member, Association  of  Alaska  Housing  Authorities                                                              
(AAHA), testifying  on behalf of AAHA,  noted that as a  member of                                                              
that  association, he  serves  as the  executive  director of  the                                                              
Aleutian  Housing Authority.   He offered  a background  regarding                                                              
AAHA:    members  and  board  of  directors  include  14  regional                                                              
housing  authorities  created pursuant  to  AS 18.55;  the  Alaska                                                              
Housing Finance  Corporation (AHFC)  is a  member of AAHA's  board                                                              
and association;  AAHA members  serve residents  in every  part of                                                              
the  state;   regional housing  authorities have  built well  over                                                              
6,000   housing  units   since   their  inception   in  1971   and                                                              
collectively  administer well  over  $100 million  in federal  and                                                              
state  funds  annually; the  vast  majority  of housing  in  rural                                                              
Alaska  has  been  built  by AAHA  members;  in  addition  to  new                                                              
construction,  AAHA members provide  a wide  range of  housing and                                                              
housing related  services, including the development  of community                                                              
infrastructure;  and  working  with  AHFC,  AAHA  is  one  of  the                                                              
largest employers  in rural  Alaska and plays  a critical  role in                                                              
helping to sustain many local Bush economies.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. DUAME  stated that given  the role  AAHA plays, it  is obvious                                                              
that  it  would   have  a  strong  interest  in   the  legislation                                                              
currently  before the  committee and  the broader  issues of  both                                                              
short-  and long-term  energy  policies.   Mr.  Duame stated  that                                                              
AAHA strongly  supports both  HB 4002  and HB  4003, as  "one step                                                              
that can be taken  immediately to provide much  needed relief from                                                              
the escalating  energy costs being  faced by both urban  and rural                                                              
Alaskans - many  of whom are our clients and  beneficiaries."  Mr.                                                              
Duame   said  the   resource   rebate  program,   the   additional                                                              
appropriations  of  PCE, and  the  possible  waiver of  the  state                                                              
motor fuel tax are all appropriate uses of oil revenue.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. DUAME  related that  in the  past week,  the average  price of                                                              
gas in Anchorage  and other communities on the  road system ranged                                                              
from $4.45 to $4.75  a gallon, while in Bethel, the  price of gas,                                                              
which was $5.69  a gallon a week  ago, has risen to  about $5.99 a                                                              
gallon.     Many  of  the   smaller  communities,  he   said,  are                                                              
"approaching  levels that are  truly crippling."   He  named other                                                              
communities whose  gasoline prices are  as high as $9.29  a gallon                                                              
and whole  heating fuel  prices are  as high as  $8.39.   He noted                                                              
that  all of  these prices  reflect  fuel or  gas received  before                                                              
this  fall's shipment,  at  which  point the  prices  are hard  to                                                              
predict.  Mr. Duame  stated that many of AAHA's  clients are faced                                                              
with  having to  choose between  eating and  staying warm;  making                                                              
house  payments is  quickly  becoming a  secondary  priority.   He                                                              
stated,  "This   fact  has  the   potential  for   threatening  to                                                              
undermine the  entire system under  which we operate and  in which                                                              
we've invested hundreds of millions of dollars."                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. DUAME emphasized  that while AAHA supports  the aforementioned                                                              
measures  for short-term  relief,  it  believes that  a  statewide                                                              
energy  policy needs  to  be  rapidly developed  and  implemented,                                                              
which he  said would  outline a  comprehensive strategy  to reduce                                                              
energy  costs over  the mid  and long  term.  He  said AAHA  looks                                                              
forward  to the  release of  Governor Palin's  long-term plan,  as                                                              
well  as   any  action   initiated  by   the  legislature   toward                                                              
developing  a comprehensive  solution  to  Alaska's energy  needs.                                                              
The  survival  of Bush  communities  depends  on the  actions  the                                                              
legislature takes over the next months and years, he said.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
11:14:22 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DUAME named  two  related programs  that  have a  significant                                                              
impact on  the overall objectives  underlying both HB 4002  and HB
4003:      the   AHFC   supplemental   grant   program   and   the                                                              
weatherization rebate  program, the  latter of which  was recently                                                              
implemented.    Mr.  Duame  opined  that  there  is  nothing  more                                                              
important or cost-effective  in the short-term  than conservation.                                                              
He  emphasized that  the supplemental  grant program  has been  an                                                              
important  program  for AAHA,  allowing  its members  to  leverage                                                              
federal  funds in  particular, and  is  very much  related to  the                                                              
ability to  produce energy efficient  homes.  He said  AAHA's hope                                                              
regarding  the  weatherization  program  is that  it  will  reduce                                                              
usage  by 30-50  percent.   He concluded  by  strongly urging  the                                                              
legislature  to  support both  the  supplemental  program and  the                                                              
weatherization program.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:15:37 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
PAUL  D. KENDALL,  testifying on  behalf  of himself,  said he  is                                                              
"taken  aback."   He stated  that the  real issue  is that  "we're                                                              
letting some  corporation hold our  people hostage."  He  said his                                                              
concern is  in regard to leadership.   Mr. Kendall  explained that                                                              
society culls  itself through  the election  process "in  order to                                                              
move on  with the  general consensus,"  but limiting dialogue  [by                                                              
limiting the  amount of time each  testifier gets to  speak], when                                                              
the issue at hand should be broadcast statewide, is "foolish."                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. KENDALL  said giving  preference to  corporations over  people                                                              
is an  indication of where  "our" problems  lie.  He  stated, "...                                                              
The  real problem  is  that  we're  allowing some  corporation  to                                                              
literally enslave  us - literally  place your children's  lives in                                                              
jeopardy, and  we're sitting  here in acquiescence  to that.   ...                                                              
The men that  I grew up with  would never ... have stood  for this                                                              
for a moment."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. KENDALL  stated, "The real  resolve is  that we are  each owed                                                              
to each other some annual energy allotment."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LeDOUX  interjected that  Mr. Kendall had  testified when                                                              
the legislature  met in Anchorage,  and asked him to  conclude his                                                              
testimony forthwith.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. KENDALL  responded that this moment  in time is a  new moment.                                                              
He  remarked that  he  had  waited all  night  to  hear a  certain                                                              
speaker  and missed  it  because that  moment  was not  televised,                                                              
"because  your government  wanted  to hang  out in  Juneau."   Mr.                                                              
Kendall concluded  that the chance  exists to build a  new society                                                              
with world-wide recognition  within just a few years  at the most,                                                              
based  upon  a  new  technology  that is  just  "bulging  to  come                                                              
forward."   He mentioned  electric vehicles and  "a whole  slew of                                                              
energy    devices."       Mr.   Kendall    apologized   for    his                                                              
contentiousness,  adding, "...  But sometimes  we all  have to  do                                                              
things we don't particularly want to do."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:20:07 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
KEN   FISHER,  testifying   on   behalf   of  himself,   expressed                                                              
appreciation  that Governor  Palin  took the  initiative to  place                                                              
[HB 4002]  before the  legislature.   He said  all too  often only                                                              
the negative is  focused upon in terms of the legislature  and its                                                              
work, and  he told the  committee that he  is here today  to thank                                                              
the legislature for the work it is doing on this issue.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. FISHER  noted that the committee  has heard that  Alaskans are                                                              
hurting financially  because of  high energy  costs.  He  said the                                                              
citizens  of Juneau, for  example, experienced  the disruption  of                                                              
the  city's  hydro-electric  supply,  which  resulted  in  a  rate                                                              
increase  of 400-500  percent.   However, another  result of  high                                                              
oil  costs,  he  said,  is that  the  Alaska  state  treasury  has                                                              
experienced  an increase  in  revenue.   Mr.  Fisher  said he  has                                                              
heard that  the people  of Alaska  are the  owners of  the state's                                                              
vast natural  resources, the Constitution  of the State  of Alaska                                                              
charges  the  legislature  to  provide   the  utilization  of  all                                                              
natural  resources  for the  maximum  benefit  for the  people  of                                                              
Alaska, and  that the payments identified  in HB 4002  represent a                                                              
distribution  of  Alaska's resource  wealth  to  its owners.    He                                                              
stated that the  fact HB 4002 would distribute a  small portion of                                                              
Alaska's resource  wealth to its  owners - the citizens  of Alaska                                                              
- is a good thing.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
11:23:27 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FAIRCLOUGH explained  the procedure  by which  the                                                              
testimony of  citizens is heard.   She explained for  the public's                                                              
benefit  that the current  meeting  is being  held as a  balancing                                                              
act  with the  meeting of  the body;  the House  floor session  is                                                              
currently waiting  upon the House  Community and  Regional Affairs                                                              
Standing  Committee  meeting  to  finish.   She  thanked  Co-Chair                                                              
LeDoux for her handling of a stressful situation.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
11:24:39 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
BARB  NICKELS,   Program  Director,   Bering  Strait   Development                                                              
Council  (BSDC), testifying  on  behalf of  BSDC,  noted that  the                                                              
parent  group  for   BSDC  is  the  Alaska   Regional  Development                                                              
Organization (ARDOR),  which represents  20 tribes in  the region.                                                              
Ms.  Nickels  said  she  understands  a concern  she  heard  at  a                                                              
previous  meeting  that  data  be gathered  that  will  allow  the                                                              
legislature to  take a stance that  is fair to all Alaskans.   She                                                              
remarked that  the data  will become  available, but the  [energy]                                                              
crisis is a reality that is happening now.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. NICKELS  stated that BSDC  supports Governor  Palin's proposal                                                              
to provide  the $1,200  resource rebate  to individuals  to offset                                                              
the high  cost of energy.   Rural  Alaskans have found  themselves                                                              
in  an energy  crisis  unlike  anything  urban Alaskans  or  those                                                              
living in  the Lower 48 have  experienced, she said.   The economy                                                              
in the  Bering Strait Region  is primarily subsistence  based, and                                                              
fuel costs in that  region have recently risen to  well over $7.00                                                              
a gallon,  which will have  a negative  impact on the  survival of                                                              
community members  this winter,  as well  as on their  subsistence                                                              
activities.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  NICKELS  related  that  the  lowest  income  members  of  the                                                              
community  are  currently  spending  almost 40  percent  of  their                                                              
income to  pay for heating  costs.  She  noted that a  study shows                                                              
that  although  fuel  costs  matter,   they  do  not  seem  to  be                                                              
definitive  drivers of  migration,  because  migration trends  are                                                              
related to earnings.   Ms. Nickels said she interprets  that study                                                              
to mean  that the people  who are hit  the hardest by  rising fuel                                                              
costs are  the least able  to afford to  move.  However,  she said                                                              
people are  moving during the long  winter months.  The  effect of                                                              
people temporarily  migrating will have a negative  effect on both                                                              
urban and rural educational systems.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. NICKELS  said school systems  receive state monies based  on a                                                              
formula   derived  from   a  student  count   taken  in   October.                                                              
Villages, as  well as other  areas in the  state, see  much higher                                                              
energy costs  after October.   She reported  that people  in rural                                                              
areas are coming  to Anchorage, Nome, and other hub  areas to live                                                              
temporarily  during the  high energy  cost  months, which  affects                                                              
the  student-teacher ratio  and  throws off  the school's  budget,                                                              
thereby reducing  the quality of education each  student receives.                                                              
The move itself disrupts a student's school year.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. NICKELS  relayed that  ARDOR provides  planning assistance  to                                                              
communities to create  local economic development  plans, and from                                                              
those  plans   a  regional   comprehensive  economic   development                                                              
strategy  (CEDS)  is made.    As  plans are  updated,  alternative                                                              
energy and  other energy  solutions are made  top priority.   What                                                              
is missing in order  to bring such plans "full circle"  is a state                                                              
economic plan, of which energy is also a key issue.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  NICKELS said  ARDOR fully  supports an  expanded PCE  program                                                              
that  would   encompass  all   customers,  including   businesses,                                                              
schools, and  clinics.  She indicated  that ARDOR would  also like                                                              
to see "the  buy-down of the  rural utility that will  lower rates                                                              
to customers," which  she said was "promoted during  AEA's visit."                                                              
She  said she  heard yesterday  that  there was  not a  definitive                                                              
answer  on  whether  or  not  a  tax  could  be  assessed  to  the                                                              
individual  customer,  and  she   expressed  her  hope  that  some                                                              
research will  be done so  that a definitive  answer is  found and                                                              
"this  viable option  can be  placed in  the bill."   Ms.  Nickels                                                              
continued:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     It's evident  that a long-term solution is  eminent, and                                                                   
     ...  ARDOR is  totally supportive  of  and is  currently                                                                   
     assisting and  researching alternative energy  solutions                                                                   
     and  conservation  efforts  for our  region.    However,                                                                   
     help  is  needed  now  for  mere  survival  this  coming                                                                   
     winter  for  all of  our  community members  and  fellow                                                                   
     Alaskans.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. NICKELS concluded  by expressing her pride in  being both part                                                              
of  a rural  community and  a partner  working toward  alternative                                                              
energy solutions for Alaska.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
11:28:56 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA said  what  is not  being  talked about  is                                                              
what happens  when members  of a community  are lost.   She warned                                                              
that  those  members  who  leave  could  be  those  who  keep  the                                                              
electricity  running or  provide  phone service.    She asked  Ms.                                                              
Nickels if this issue has been studied yet.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. NICKELS  responded that  there are  many studies in  progress,                                                              
but people don't  realize the impending domino  effect on people's                                                              
way  of life  in both  urban  and rural  communities.   She  urged                                                              
everyone to  consider what  all the effects  might be  when voting                                                              
on "this bill."                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
11:30:44 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT KITH,  Chair, Kawerak  Board, testifying  on behalf  of the                                                              
Kawerak  Board, told  the committee  that Kawerak  is a  nonprofit                                                              
group that provides  BIA services, some state and  federal grants,                                                              
and  represents  approximately 20  tribes  in the  Bering  Straits                                                              
Region.   He offered  a brief  personal history,  noting that  his                                                              
mother migrated  out of  Elim in  about 1955,  and he returned  to                                                              
Elim  in  1980,  after  spending   most  of  his  early  years  in                                                              
Fairbanks.   He  said he  thinks  the region  has not  experienced                                                              
large numbers  of its  inhabitants moving  to Anchorage,  although                                                              
he said  he has seen  a lot  of migration out  of Elim  because of                                                              
the job  market.  The  job market in Nome  is much better  than it                                                              
is in Elim, because of "Noble Gold," he observed.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. KITH revealed  that he serves as president of  the Elim Tribal                                                              
Council,  which owns  the  [health] clinic  and  Native store,  is                                                              
part  of the  Alaska Native  Cooperative  Association (ANCA),  and                                                              
owns another  building used for the  Boys and Girls Club.   Of the                                                              
three buildings  in Elim,  the one  losing the  most money  is the                                                              
clinic.  He said  [the Council] receives federal  money related to                                                              
leasing and  the clinic;  however, he  estimated that  the council                                                              
spent  $10,000  over  that  which it  received  from  the  federal                                                              
government in order  to keep the clinic's doors open.   The store,                                                              
he  said, sells  gas  and  oil, which  last  year  cost $4.79  and                                                              
$4.35,  respectively, while  the  most recent  shipment this  year                                                              
has been  priced at $7.25  and $8.09, respectively.   He  said the                                                              
council  delayed the  raising  of  the gas  prices  by two  weeks,                                                              
because the  commercial fishing season  was just opening,  and the                                                              
council wanted  to lessen  the impact on  its fishermen  and those                                                              
engaged in subsistence activities.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. KITH  stated his  belief that the  proposed $1,200  would help                                                              
mitigate the  impact of high  fuel prices in  the short term.   He                                                              
said he  would support more  investment of the legislature's  time                                                              
next session to  consider this issue in more detail.   He said the                                                              
aforementioned  Native store  has  worked with  the Alaska  Energy                                                              
Authority  in the past  regarding  a new tank  farm, during  which                                                              
many parties  were involved,  thus, he  said, he appreciates  what                                                              
AEA  has  done in  the  past  and  the investment  that  they  are                                                              
making.   He also  noted that he  had sat on  a housing  board and                                                              
appreciates the work  of AHFC.  Mr. Kith said  Canada has invested                                                              
quite a  lot in energy  efficient homes,  and Alaska  has borrowed                                                              
from the Canadians in that respect.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. KITH  said many people have  talked about different  ideas for                                                              
what can  be done,  but he  thinks "the  devil's in the  details."                                                              
He explained  that  it takes time  and careful  planning to  avoid                                                              
making  mistakes and  bad investments.   He  said that  is why  he                                                              
would  like  the  legislature  to  continue  with  "this  type  of                                                              
meeting,  but  with less  time  crunch."    In closing,  Mr.  Kith                                                              
acknowledged  that  other regions  have  suffered  more than  Elim                                                              
has.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
11:36:36 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
PETER  NAOROZ, CEO,  Kootznoowoo,  Inc., testifying  on behalf  of                                                              
Kootznoowoo, Inc.,  told the committee  that entity is  "a village                                                              
corporation  for the  community of  Angoon."   He relayed  that in                                                              
the past he worked  as a staff member for a  legislator and joined                                                              
Kootznoowoo,  Inc., three  years ago,  and at  that point  in time                                                              
the issue  of energy "was our  number one priority."   He reported                                                              
that Kootznoowoo,  Inc., has been  working on several  projects in                                                              
Angoon  with  tribal  brethren,   state  government,  and  federal                                                              
government.    Those projects  take  time,  he said,  but  today's                                                              
issue is an emergency situation.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. NAOROZ stated  his support of "those speakers  who went before                                                              
me on  the subject  of these  two bills  that you're looking  at."                                                              
He posed  three analytical questions.   First, "Is this  the ideal                                                              
way  of  dealing  with  this  issue?"   He  said  the  answer  is,                                                              
"Absolutely not."   Second, "Is  it enough money?"   He suggested,                                                              
"Probably  not."   Third,  "Is it  the  right thing  to  do?"   He                                                              
answered,  "At the  end  of the  day,  it's absolutely  the  right                                                              
thing to do."                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  NAOROZ  opined  that  teamwork is  needed  from  the  various                                                              
members  of the  team, including  the  state, federal  government,                                                              
tribal  entities,  village  corporations,  and  [Governor  Palin's                                                              
administration].   With that  teamwork, he  predicted, "we  have a                                                              
very  good chance  of  getting  there."   He  said  he knows  that                                                              
Southeast  Alaska  is  "abundant  in energy."    He  stated,  "Our                                                              
project  is  a much  smaller  project  than  it  could be  if  the                                                              
intertie was  done."  He indicated  the importance of  the state's                                                              
defining  its role  so that  the private  sector and  corporations                                                              
such as Kootznoowoo, Inc., can "figure it out and contribute."                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
11:39:11 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEERA KOHLER,  President/CEO, Alaska Village  Electric Cooperative                                                              
(AVEC), testifying  on behalf of  AVEC, noted that  cooperative is                                                              
member-owned  -  a  non-profit   group  that  serves  53  villages                                                              
throughout   Alaska,   with   a   combined   population   equaling                                                              
approximately  44  percent of  Alaska's  Native population.    Ms.                                                              
Kohler  relayed that  at  its last  meeting,  the  AVEC Board,  in                                                              
response  to  fuel  costs  totaling   approximately  $26  million,                                                              
adopted  a  resolution  declaring  a fuel  cost  emergency.    For                                                              
comparison  purposes, Ms.  Kohler  noted that  the  fuel cost  the                                                              
previous  year was  about $14 million  and $8  million about  five                                                              
years ago.   There  is no  avenue through  which to collect  those                                                              
increased costs  except through  electric rates; therefore,  it is                                                              
predicted that the  average revenue per kWh - just  under 40 cents                                                              
five years  ago - will,  with the current  cost of fuel,  be close                                                              
to 65 cents per  kWh.  That increase represents  almost double the                                                              
current  total  cost  of  power in  Anchorage,  she  pointed  out.                                                              
Those  costs of  power "punch  us through  the 52.5  cent per  kWh                                                              
ceiling in PCE,"  she said.  She acknowledged  that considerations                                                              
are being  made to  raise the ceiling;  however, she  reminded the                                                              
committee that PCE  only affects about 30 percent  of the kilowatt                                                              
hours that are sold  in PCE communities.  The other  70 percent of                                                              
sales  are completely  borne by  the consumers  - any  residential                                                              
user  consuming  more  than 500  kilowatt  hours,  all  commercial                                                              
customers,  and the schools  - which  is a  huge impact  in AVEC's                                                              
communities, she  said.  Ms. Kohler  pointed out that  whereas the                                                              
Lower 48 is  currently suffering from high gasoline  prices alone,                                                              
Alaska  is feeling  the  additional impact  of  high electric  and                                                              
fuel oil prices.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. KOHLER  said AVEC's resolution  suggests that  the legislature                                                              
consider capping  "the cost of fuel through electric  utilities to                                                              
something akin to  about three times the cost in  Anchorage."  She                                                              
noted  that the  cost  of electricity  in  Anchorage is  currently                                                              
about $3.50  per million Btu,  while "our  cost" is about  $35 per                                                              
million Btu.  She  said, "If the state were to  impose a fuel cost                                                              
cap,  then  the  benefit  would flow  directly  to  all  consumers                                                              
throughout the  state."  She said  a number of consumers  derive a                                                              
large percentage  of their electricity from diesel  fuel, with "no                                                              
relief whatsoever  from any  avenue - PCE  does not  affect them."                                                              
A  fuel  cost  cap  would bring  that  relief  directly  to  those                                                              
utilities and those consumers.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. KOHLER stated,  "We are faced with the enormous  problem right                                                              
now:   How are we  going to pay  for our  fuel?"  She  mentioned a                                                              
state  loan program,  the grand  total of  which is  approximately                                                              
$12 million,  and she said  that money  is available for  all fuel                                                              
purchases.    She   stated,  "Our  fuel  purchase   alone  is  $26                                                              
million."    She   named  Nome,  Bethel,  Kotzebue,   Naknek,  and                                                              
Dillingham,  and   said  the  individual   fuel  costs   in  those                                                              
communities are well  over $5 million this year,  as compared with                                                              
less  than  $1  million  just  a   few  years  ago.    Ms.  Kohler                                                              
continued:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     What's  happening  is,  we're  having  to  increase  our                                                                   
     lines  of  credit  to  draw  down  monies.    So,  we're                                                                   
     borrowing  money at  [a] 5-plus  percent interest  rate,                                                                   
     so  that translates  to an  additional cost  per kWh  of                                                                   
     about 2  cents.  So, we  are hoping that there  is going                                                                   
     to be  some immediate  relief opportunity available,  so                                                                   
     we can  buy our fuel and  pass those benefits on  to our                                                                   
     consumers.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. KOHLER  said her question to  the committee is if  its members                                                              
are actively  contemplating  modifying the  bills to include  some                                                              
cost relief for  fuel cost purchases, as well as  debt relief "for                                                              
the  utilities."    She  explained,  "Because  for  us  that  also                                                              
translates to about 3 or 4 cents a kWh."                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
11:44:02 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA  asked  if   "increasing  the  program"  or                                                              
"having it cover more than it did" would "do anything in this."                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KOHLER answered,  "It does  help."   She  explained that  the                                                              
original program,  as it  was first  implemented in 1984,  covered                                                              
the  first   700  kilowatt  hours,   compared  to  500,   for  all                                                              
consumers.   Now,  she  said, it  only covers  the  first 500  for                                                              
residential  consumers.    She said,  "So,  the  small  commercial                                                              
enterprises were getting  some relief.  Even though  it's only 700                                                              
kilowatt  hours,   in  a  village   where  you  have   very  small                                                              
commercial enterprises,  it makes a  big difference."   Ms. Kohler                                                              
concluded:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     There  is, of  course, a  fairly  large cost  associated                                                                   
     with that.   When the program  was modified in  '99, the                                                                   
     number  of  kilowatt  hours  eligible  for  PCE  dropped                                                                   
     dramatically  as  a  result   of  the  changes,  so  the                                                                   
     kilowatt  hours eligible  will probably  go up by  about                                                                   
     25 percent if that were enacted.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
11:45:49 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
APRIL  FERGUSON, Acting  Chief  Operating  Officer (COO),  Bristol                                                              
Bay  Native Corporation  (BBNC),  testifying  on  behalf of  BBNC,                                                              
noted that  she had  testified during  the hearings in  Anchorage,                                                              
and  explained  that she  is  once  again before  the  legislature                                                              
because  BBNC  believes  "we"  are  in a  crisis  -  an  emergency                                                              
situation.     She  said  she   appreciates  the  work   that  the                                                              
legislature is doing regarding this issue.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FERGUSON said  she  is pleased  to  have  heard the  previous                                                              
testimony of Misters  Rosen and Otis; the concerns  they expressed                                                              
are shared by BBNC.   She stated that BBNC is  concerned about the                                                              
effect  of the energy  crisis not  only on  its shareholders,  but                                                              
also  on  its employees.    She  said the  immediate  effects  are                                                              
apparent  "from many  of  our subsidiaries  that  we have  working                                                              
here in state."   The current  uncertainty in the fuel  market and                                                              
the violent changes  in pricing are forcing people  to move.  When                                                              
people leave  the state, that  results in  the loss of  talent and                                                              
manpower.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. FERGUSON  stated BBNC's support of  HB 4002 and HB  4003.  She                                                              
described the  bills as short-term  mechanisms in  stabilizing the                                                              
state's economy  "while we  all work out  the details  and develop                                                              
the plans that we hope will save it."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FERGUSON  related that  BBNC  owns  a subsidiary  company  in                                                              
Prudhoe Bay,  called, Kakivik, whose  employees inspect  pipes and                                                              
work a  two-week rotational work  week.  She stated,  "It's fierce                                                              
competition to  find a qualified  workforce."  She  explained that                                                              
the work is  technical; BBNC spends approximately  $5,000 to train                                                              
each  employee  before  even  putting   that  employee  to  work."                                                              
Approximately  one quarter  of those  employees  live outside  the                                                              
state of  Alaska and fly  to Prudhoe Bay  every two  weeks, coming                                                              
to work  for Kakivik from  all across the  Lower 48.   She stated,                                                              
"It really is  a bidding war to  get those people to  come up here                                                              
right  now."   She explained  that  there are  not enough  trained                                                              
personnel  to do  the  work "in  Alaska  or throughout  the  whole                                                              
United  States," and  it  is becoming  more  difficult to  provide                                                              
sufficient incentives  to get the job  force to come to  Alaska to                                                              
work.   Ms.  Ferguson  noted that  employees  who  live in  remote                                                              
areas of Alaska  are also migrating into urban  centers because of                                                              
the high cost of living.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FERGUSON stated  her  belief  that one  of  the state's  most                                                              
valuable  resources  is its  senior  citizens.   She  warned  that                                                              
costs are  being raised which are  causing a migration  of seniors                                                              
out of  the state.   She  indicated that  it is  not desirable  to                                                              
lose  the state's  seniors,  and  said  the state  should  "create                                                              
mechanisms" that would  encourage seniors to stay in  Alaska.  Ms.                                                              
Ferguson relayed  the importance of the university  system and the                                                              
military  in  Fairbanks,  for example,  and  warned  that  without                                                              
incentives for  them to  stay or the  infrastructure to  keep them                                                              
there,  "we're  going  to  lose  them."    She  talked  about  the                                                              
connection  between  outward  migration and  national  security  -                                                              
"people moving in  your ports, your harbors, your  airports."  She                                                              
echoed  Representative   Cissna's  previous  remarks   that  those                                                              
people  with the  ability  to keep  things  working  are going  to                                                              
disappear.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FERGUSON, in  response to  a request  for clarification  from                                                              
Representative Cissna,  specified that  the purpose of  her travel                                                              
to  Juneau was  solely to  address the  energy crisis  issue.   In                                                              
response to  a follow-up question,  she said, "We're going  to try                                                              
to go to  the finance committees,  we're going to go to  the urban                                                              
legislators,  [and] we're going  to personally  meet with  as many                                                              
people  as we  can.   If  there are  opportunities  or venues  for                                                              
testimony,  we will  go to  them, and  also speak  our issues  for                                                              
them."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA  recommended  that  the committee  hold  "a                                                              
gathering"  to hear  these people  who have  come so  far at  such                                                              
great cost.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.   FERGUSON,   in   regard  to   a   previous   question   from                                                              
Representative Neuman,  noted that  BBNC has hired  energy experts                                                              
and  consultants and  has had  the  benefit of  advice from  Chuck                                                              
Logsdon.  She said  Mr. Logsdon is helping BBNC  to draft proposal                                                              
amendments for  both PCE and the  home heating fuel [bills].   She                                                              
noted that  Mary Ann  Pease - an  energy consultant,  is involved.                                                              
She  reminded  the  committee  that  Mr.  Logsdon  was  the  chief                                                              
economist for  "Oil & Gas" for the  State of Alaska for  25 years.                                                              
Both  individuals have  been working  intensively,  she said,  "so                                                              
that we  can also be part  of the solution  to this."   She added,                                                              
"And  we would  like to  make their  expertise  available to  you,                                                              
too."                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
11:52:55 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
TIEL SMITH,  Manager, Land  and Resource  Department, Bristol  Bay                                                              
Native Corporation  (BBNC), testifying  on behalf of  BBNC, stated                                                              
that he  joins in support  of those  calling for immediate  relief                                                              
of the  urgent energy crisis  in Alaska.   He said BBNC is  one of                                                              
the few  regional Native corporations  that, since  its inception,                                                              
has  been able  to pay  regular  and increasing  dividends to  its                                                              
shareholders.   However, even those  dividends, combined  with the                                                              
PFD, cannot  deflect the current  energy crisis and its  effect on                                                              
rural  Alaska.   Mr. Tiel  said it  is because  of background  and                                                              
current occupation  that he  is compelled to  address "a  piece of                                                              
what is happening."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. TIEL  noted that he grew  up in Dillingham,  worked seasonally                                                              
off  the coast  of King  Salmon,  and currently  serves those  who                                                              
live  in  the Bristol  Bay  Region  year-round.   As  a  life-long                                                              
fisherman in  Bristol Bay, he said  he has just returned  from the                                                              
salmon fishing  season.  He said  this year was the first  in many                                                              
that the fishermen  have had a chance  to fish the main  season at                                                              
its state-leased  "net locations"  rather  than being pulled  into                                                              
the crowded  special harvest areas  in the Naknek  River; however,                                                              
that  good fortune  was impacted  by the  high cost  of fuel.   He                                                              
noted that while  gasoline prices in urban areas  are around $4.50                                                              
a gallon,  it is  rising past $6.00  a gallon  in the  King Salmon                                                              
and  Dillingham  areas.   That  factor,  combined with  the  limit                                                              
restrictions  placed  upon fishermen  by  processors,  has made  a                                                              
season  mediocre that  could  have been  of  economic benefit,  he                                                              
said.   Mr.  Tiel pointed  out that  many  fishing operations  use                                                              
their profits  to purchase winter  heating oil reserves,  which he                                                              
said is  a basic  necessity.   Often, rural  Alaskans do  not know                                                              
what  the price  of  heating  oil will  be  until  the fall  barge                                                              
arrives;  however, historically  the  price  is noticeably  higher                                                              
than  the  summer  price.   Many  families,  he  warned,  will  be                                                              
challenged  to  purchase  enough   heating  oil  to  sustain  them                                                              
through the coming winter.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. TIEL said that  it is not just fuel costs  which are impacted.                                                              
He  explained,  "There  is  a  whole   spiraling  web  of  related                                                              
services  that have  boosted prices  to accommodate  for the  high                                                              
cost of fuel."   Mr. Tiel, reemphasized that rural  areas are more                                                              
adversely  affected than  urban areas,  because he  said jobs  are                                                              
limited and  incomes are low, while  the cost of  living continues                                                              
to increase.   Current  fuel prices, he  noted, are  "widening the                                                              
divide,"  and no  one sees  an end to  the situation  in the  near                                                              
future.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. TIEL  expressed his  support of  the proposed $1,200  economic                                                              
rebate  legislation  as  one  method   by  which  to  "deliver  an                                                              
immediate  and  needed solution."    He  also strongly  urged  the                                                              
legislature not  to take too long  to come to a  decision, because                                                              
"families  need to  fill  their tanks  with  oil in  time for  the                                                              
quickly approaching  winter."   In conclusion,  Mr. Tiel  said he,                                                              
along with  others, realizes that  long-term solutions need  to be                                                              
explored, but  he said the current  legislation is needed  to fill                                                              
"the urgent need present today."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
11:58:26 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
HEIDI VEACH, testifying  on behalf of herself, noted  that she has                                                              
a small farm  at the Tonsina North Agricultural  Development.  She                                                              
said  she is  in favor  of the  proposed  $1,200 economic  rebate;                                                              
however, she  expressed concern regarding  the dates in  the bill.                                                              
She explained, "I'm  not sure why there is a necessity  to have an                                                              
August 15 date ...  if you don't want the money  for some reason."                                                              
She noted  that the  application period is  [not until]  October 1                                                              
to November  30, but  she emphasized  that the current  conditions                                                              
in the  Copper River valley  have included  rain and frost  in the                                                              
past week, and people  are already in need of using  the amount of                                                              
fuel usually not  consumed until about October 1.   She questioned                                                              
why applications  for the  rebate could not  be made  available in                                                              
September, so that relief can come immediately to people.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. VEACH stated  that one of her biggest challenges  currently is                                                              
the  price of  gasoline,  which she  needs  in order  to drive  to                                                              
work.    She reported  that  jobs  are  available, she  said,  but                                                              
because  of low  wages,  long commutes,  and  high  fuel costs  at                                                              
$4.86 a gallon,  many jobs are not  being filled.  She  noted that                                                              
even though it  is on the road system, Gakona  [Elementary] School                                                              
has closed  this year  because of people  leaving the  rural area.                                                              
Ms.  Veach concluded  by reiterating  that  although she  supports                                                              
the rebate, she would like it to be available sooner.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
12:01:37 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DAVE  TRANUHAN,  testifying  on  behalf  of  himself,  stated  his                                                              
support of HB 4002  and HB 4003 as a short-term  answer to utilize                                                              
while  the  state  works  on  its  long-term  energy  plan.    Mr.                                                              
Tranuhan said  he has  lived in  Western Alaska for  approximately                                                              
60 years,  and is  now a retired  senior citizen  in his 80s.   He                                                              
reported that  some of  the seniors in  his community  last winter                                                              
were forced  to choose  between  "heat or eat,"  and he  predicted                                                              
that  this year  would be worse.   He  said he  knows friends  who                                                              
have closed  down all the  rooms but one  in their  houses because                                                              
they could  not afford  to heat  the entire  house.  Mr.  Tranuhan                                                              
said all Alaskans  need assistance.  He said, "What  is making the                                                              
state  very  wealthy is  making  Alaskans  less wealthy  and  some                                                              
destitute."   He observed that there  is a migration into  and out                                                              
of  Bethel, Alaska,  and that  movement  is cause  by high  energy                                                              
costs.  Energy  affects all costs  - every utility, he  said.  Mr.                                                              
Tranuhan  encouraged the  legislature  to  support the  short-term                                                              
assistance to  all Alaskans.  He  said the legislature  will never                                                              
find an  answer that  is totally  fair across  the state,  because                                                              
the cost of living  is much higher in rural Alaska.   He remarked,                                                              
"The further  you go  out, the higher  the cost  of energy."   Mr.                                                              
Tranuhan reported  that the least expensive gasoline  available in                                                              
his  community is  running  about  $6.00 a  gallon.   Mr.  Transom                                                              
thanked  the committee  for  taking  testimony statewide,  and  in                                                              
particular,   thanked  Representative   Salmon  for  his   e-mails                                                              
regarding   this   issue.      Furthermore,   he   expressed   his                                                              
appreciation for "the governor's notion for presenting this."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
12:05:36 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
RICH  STASENKO,  Treasurer,  City  of  Shishmaref,  testifying  on                                                              
behalf  of the  City of  Shishmaref,  said the  city must  provide                                                              
heated  water  for its  school  and  will  have a  difficult  time                                                              
staying  within its  fuel budget  because  of the  rising cost  of                                                              
energy.    He  opined  that raising  rates  is  not  a  reasonable                                                              
option,  because  community  members   are  already  dealing  with                                                              
higher utility  costs.  Mr.  Stasenko acknowledged that  the state                                                              
has  given   a  revenue-sharing   increase,  but  said   while  he                                                              
appreciates  it,   the  increase  is   not  enough  to   meet  the                                                              
increasing costs  [of energy].  Therefore, Mr.  Stasenko requested                                                              
that  the state  offer a  subsidy for  the fuel  purchased by  the                                                              
city.   He  explained  that fuel  is  delivered  to Shishmaref  by                                                              
barge,   and  the   cost   for  this   winter's   fuel  is   still                                                              
undetermined.   He said  the city ordered  23,000 gallons  of fuel                                                              
this year, 9,000  gallons less than the amount  ordered last year,                                                              
because  the city  cannot pay  the  quoted price  for their  usual                                                              
amount.    Furthermore,  Mr.  Stasenko  indicated  that  what  was                                                              
ordered will  not be "what  we get landed,"  because the  price is                                                              
anticipated to  be even higher.   He said he would like  the state                                                              
to "look at these  communities that have to deal  with this budget                                                              
shortfall."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. STASENKO  spoke about security  as it  relates to energy.   He                                                              
related that  people have siphoned  gasoline out of  snow machines                                                              
and four-wheelers,  a problem which  Mr. Stasenko  indicated could                                                              
be exacerbated by  the rising cost of fuel, and he  noted there is                                                              
a shortage  of police and  village public safety  officers (VPSOs)                                                              
in the community.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STASENKO,  regarding  long-term  solutions,  said  geothermal                                                              
energy is available  where there are hot springs.   In conjunction                                                              
with  the  topic   of  hot  springs,  he  noted   that  there  are                                                              
communities  that  are being  forced  to  move because  of  global                                                              
warming and  soil erosion, and  those communities  face challenges                                                              
finding  suitable  ground  that  does not  have  permafrost.    He                                                              
stated, "There  are these  areas that  have geothermal  potential,                                                              
and  I don't  think  anybody's  looking  at locating  or  creating                                                              
communities and  developing geothermal energy as  a long-term kind                                                              
of solution."                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. STASENKO said  he appreciates the $1,200 rebate  as a means to                                                              
offset  the stress  on  people and  to possibly  prevent  problems                                                              
that  could   occur  in  the   short-term.    He   also  expressed                                                              
appreciation   for  the   work  of   and  efforts   made  by   the                                                              
legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
12:09:59 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
JIM WILLIAMS, testifying  on behalf of himself,  said he considers                                                              
every resident of  Alaska to be his business  partner, because the                                                              
population  of the  state jointly  owns the  mineral resources  of                                                              
the state.   The  royalty oil  coming down  the pipeline  is being                                                              
sold at a  vast profit "elsewhere,"  he said. He opined  that some                                                              
of that  royalty oil  should be  provided to  the refiners  in the                                                              
state at  cost, whereby the  refiners and distributors  could make                                                              
a profit,  while passing  the savings "for  the difference  of the                                                              
crude oil cost"  on to consumer - carte blanc.   Mr. Williams said                                                              
the only  way the state  will survive is  to decrease the  cost of                                                              
diesel, gasoline,  and oil  - a  measure he  opined the  state has                                                              
within its capacity to carry out.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
12:13:27 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
TOM  LAKOSH,  testifying   on  behalf  of  himself,   said  he  is                                                              
disappointed that  amendments have not been offered  for the bills                                                              
before the committee.   He said the posting of  legislation on the                                                              
legislature's  web site is  insufficient,  because many words  are                                                              
cut off on his web browser.  He continued:                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     When I  suggested amendments  to properly apportion  the                                                                   
     monies available  for those who actually need  it, I was                                                                   
     told  that  there's  not enough  time  to  write  proper                                                                   
     legislation.       I   would    suggest   that    that's                                                                   
     unconstitutional  with respect  to  the resource  rebate                                                                   
     program,  because there's  a constitutional  requirement                                                                   
     to use resources  for the maximum benefit  of the people                                                                   
     where it is  clearly discerned that the primary  duty of                                                                   
     the  state  is  to  protect  the  health,  welfare,  and                                                                   
     education  of  the  citizens   of  the  state.    It  is                                                                   
     necessary to  assure that the  proper levels  of funding                                                                   
     for  all of those  programs are,  indeed, funded  first,                                                                   
     and where  there are  additional programs that  agencies                                                                   
     have to  administer and  have been  told to limit  their                                                                   
     budgetary  requests  or have  otherwise  been  curtailed                                                                   
     through  legislation  or  vetoes, those  must  first  be                                                                   
     considered to  the maximum benefit of the  people before                                                                   
     a wholesale  rebate program,  like the one suggested  in                                                                   
     [HB] 4002 would be passed.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
12:16:21 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM  asked Mr. Lakosh for the  name(s) of the                                                              
person(s)  who had  told  him there  was  no time  to  "do a  bill                                                              
properly."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LAKOSH recollected  that  it  had been  Co-Chair  Fairclough,                                                              
during  the hearing  in Anchorage,  who had  mentioned that  there                                                              
was an  immediate need  to get  the bill  through the  legislature                                                              
[to benefit] the people who are in dire need.  He continued:                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     It is abundantly  clear that you could, in  fact, change                                                                   
     the law  very easily.  In  [HB] 4003 you have  listed as                                                                   
     the  recipient  of  funds the  Department  of  Health  &                                                                   
     Social Services.   You could  just put the  $800 million                                                                   
     in that, and  have them administer the whole  program if                                                                   
     this is for  the people who actually need  the subsidies                                                                   
     instead  of the  public  at large,  [of]  which a  large                                                                   
     percentage  do not need  subsidies to  bear the cost  of                                                                   
     energy.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DAHLSTROM  stated  that  she was  present  at  the                                                              
meeting  to which  Mr. Lakosh  referred, and  she interpreted  the                                                              
comments differently.   She offered her belief  that no amendments                                                              
to the bill have been moved yet.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LAKOSH  expressed  his  hope that  the  primary  function  of                                                              
government to provide  for health, safety, education,  and welfare                                                              
be considered  first, prior to  the wholesale distribution  of the                                                              
resource wealth.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH  spoke to  assure  Mr.  Lakosh that  she  had                                                              
never intended  to say  that the legislature  could not  amend the                                                              
bill.   Regarding Mr. Lakosh's suggestion  to turn the  money over                                                              
to  the Department  of Health  &  Social Services,  she said  many                                                              
people would have  to be consulted to get that done,  and she does                                                              
not  know  if  there are  time  constraints  during  this  special                                                              
session that  would prohibit the  committee from doing that.   She                                                              
confirmed  Representative Dahlstrom's  remark  that no  amendments                                                              
had yet been offered.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
12:19:21 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ANN  MALLARD,  Principal,  [Eagle  Community  School],  testifying                                                              
first in her  capacity as principal, noted that  schools no longer                                                              
receive  PCE credit,  and she  stated  her belief  that the  state                                                              
should  add  schools back  on  the  list  of recipients  of  those                                                              
credits.   She reported  that the Eagle  Community School  pays 65                                                              
cents  per kWh,  which she  said really  cuts into  the amount  of                                                              
money  the district  has.    Ms. Mallard,  although  acknowledging                                                              
that the subject  of her next request is not included  in [HB 4002                                                              
and  HB  4003],   asked  that  the  legislature   fully  fund  the                                                              
district's  transportation costs,  sharing her understanding  that                                                              
the present  level at  which the  legislature covers that  expense                                                              
is 80 percent.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. MALLARD,  next testifying on  behalf of herself, said  she and                                                              
her  husband  have kept  track  of  their  bills since  moving  to                                                              
Eagle, Alaska.   She relayed that without PCE credit,  she and her                                                              
husband would  pay the same rate  as the school per  kWh; however,                                                              
with  PCE, they  pay approximately  27 cents  per kWh.   She  said                                                              
that  helps, but  noted  that  she and  her  husband  have made  a                                                              
concerted  effort  to  conserve  their energy  consumption.    Ms.                                                              
Mallard said  when people ask  her how she  can afford to  live in                                                              
Eagle, they  do not realize  that she walks  to work, and  she and                                                              
her husband  have increased their use  of wood to heat  their home                                                              
and are planning to cook with wood.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MALLARD  expressed  her  hope   that  the  legislature  would                                                              
consider allotting  the $1,200 rebate  per household,  rather than                                                              
per  person,   and  also  to   use  "some  need-based   criteria."                                                              
Regarding  weatherization  and  rebates,  she told  the  committee                                                              
that  she has  tried  to spur  interest in  the  minimum of  three                                                              
families that it  would take to have an "energy  rater" brought to                                                              
Eagle.   She  indicated that  the cost  of bringing  in an  energy                                                              
rater is  $500 up  front.  She  added, "And  then, to  be eligible                                                              
for the  ... second  mortgage and  that kind of  thing is  kind of                                                              
out of  the reach  of most  of our  families.   So, even if  there                                                              
were  energy  raters  available   through  the  AHFC  supplemental                                                              
programs, we're not  getting a lot of takers, just  because of the                                                              
upfront costs."   She asked the legislature to  consider providing                                                              
low-  or  no-cost  loans  for  "retro  fits  and  those  kinds  of                                                              
things,"  that would be  a big  help to  some who need  individual                                                              
solutions - not  necessarily community solutions -  since Eagle is                                                              
such a small community.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. MALLARD  ended by  asking that  the legislature subsidize  the                                                              
rate  of  fuel,  so  that  other   entities,  perhaps  even  rural                                                              
residents, would pay  only what they paid last year  - the rest of                                                              
the balance  being picked  up by  the state  as a rebate,  perhaps                                                              
like PCE.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
12:24:30 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
JASON  METROKIN,  Director,  Shareholder  &  Corporate  Relations,                                                              
Bristol Bay  Native Corporation  (BBNC),  testifying on behalf  of                                                              
BBNC, said  he would offer an  abbreviated version of  his written                                                              
testimony  in  the  interest  of   time.    He  characterized  the                                                              
proposed $1,200  energy rebate as  a helpful policy  decision, but                                                              
one that  would only  help keep  many residents  afloat.   He said                                                              
while  the rebate  may  be a  short-term  solution  to get  people                                                              
through  the winter,  Anchorage and  other urban  centers are  not                                                              
prepared for the  migration of rural residents if  they are forced                                                              
to leave to escape the high cost of living in a village.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  METROKIN said  BBNC shareholders  and  Bristol Bay  residents                                                              
are beneficiaries  of the PCE program.   He asked  the legislature                                                              
to consider  an amendment  to PCE  that would  allow for  indexing                                                              
the current 52.5  cent per kWh cap, in order  to meet fluctuations                                                              
in  North Slope/West  Coast oil  prices on  a monthly  basis.   He                                                              
explained that  this would allow  for appropriate  equalization of                                                              
power  costs that  keep  in line  with the  dramatic  rise in  oil                                                              
prices.   He called this a  "medium-term" solution, which  he said                                                              
recognizes that  when the  cost of fuel  increases because  of the                                                              
price  of  oil,  so,  too, do  state  revenues  that  provide  for                                                              
increased funding of PCE.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  METROKIN related  that BBNC  has  supported energy  solutions                                                              
for  the  region  over the  years,  having  participated  in  wind                                                              
studies  in  several  communities   with  the  help  of  the  U.S.                                                              
Department  of  Energy, AEA,  AVEC,  and  other communities.    He                                                              
stated, "While  there is hope  for wind  energy in our  region, it                                                              
is  not happening  over  night."   He  said  BBNC  has engaged  in                                                              
conversation  with   Naknek  Electric  regarding   that  company's                                                              
geothermal  project,  and  has toured  Bristol  Bay,  "gaining  an                                                              
understanding   of  the  alternative   energy  options   that  are                                                              
realistically on  the horizon."   However, Mr. Metrokin  explained                                                              
the  problem  is that  "it  will  take  some  years to  get  these                                                              
projects  beyond feasibility  and  into development  for  lowering                                                              
energy  costs."     He  reported  that  as  an   ANCSA  for-profit                                                              
corporation,  BBNC  has  joined  forces  with  its  regional  non-                                                              
profit,   health   corporation,   housing   authority,   community                                                              
development  quota  (CDQ) group,  and  the  Lake &  Peninsula  and                                                              
Bristol Bay Boroughs  to form a regional Bristol  Bay partnership.                                                              
The group  has come  to the  table to  address the  aforementioned                                                              
and other  energy solutions  for the  region, in conjunction  with                                                              
the statewide  leadership of  the Alaska  Federation of  Natives -                                                              
again  having  addressed energy  as  a  number  one problem.    In                                                              
closing,  Mr.  Metrokin  urged the  committee  to support  HB 4003                                                              
and  HB 4003,  and  to consider  an  amendment to  HB  4003 as  it                                                              
pertains to  indexing the current  52.5 cent  per kWh cap  to meet                                                              
fluctuations in oil prices.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
12:27:53 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SARA  WILLSON,  testifying  on   behalf  of  herself,  said  while                                                              
listening  to all  the  preceding testimony,  she  wrote down  two                                                              
phrases:    "immediate  problem"  and  "PFD-type  payment."    She                                                              
presented  three  arguments  related  to  HB  4003.    First,  she                                                              
suggested an  alternative to using  fossil fuels for  a short-term                                                              
fix  would  be  to  use "those  funds"  to  conduct  research  and                                                              
develop alternative  fuels, such  as hydro, geothermal,  and wind.                                                              
Second,  she   pondered  whether   other  states  would   question                                                              
Alaska's  need for  federal  funding  if the  state  were able  to                                                              
provide each  of its [qualifying]  residents with $1,200.   Third,                                                              
she said the use  of the term "PFD-type payment"  makes her wonder                                                              
if the proposed  payment could create an expectation  of an annual                                                              
payment to help with fuel costs.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
12:31:19 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DOUG ISAACSON,  Mayor, City  of North Pole,  mentioned a  chart by                                                              
AEA and suggested  that "charges" and "percent of  the income" are                                                              
actually much  greater than the  chart shows.  For  example, Mayor                                                              
Isaacson noted  that the City of  North Pole has 49  accounts with                                                              
Golden  Valley Electric  Utilities and  is paying  double what  it                                                              
paid  last year.   He  explained that  a fuel  surcharge has  been                                                              
added.    He  stated  that  North  Pole  is  the  energy  resource                                                              
production  for the Interior  and for  much of  Alaska.   The area                                                              
has two  refineries:   Flint Hills, which  is royalty  oil driven,                                                              
and  produces about  one-fourth  of the  area's  heating oil;  and                                                              
Petro Star,  an Arctic  Slope Regional  Corporation (ASRC),  which                                                              
has  a  contract  with  ConocoPhillips  Alaska,  Inc.,  and  which                                                              
produces three-quarters  of the  area's heating  oil.   Petro Star                                                              
also  produces  a lot  of  the [JA-1]  fuel  that  is barged  into                                                              
communities.   He said, "Two  different solutions; you  can't just                                                              
use  royalty oil  to fix  them both."   He  indicated that  Golden                                                              
Valley  Electric Utilities  operates  a 60  megawatt diesel  power                                                              
generator.  He continued:                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     We  cannot  turn off  the  60  megawatt power  plant  in                                                                   
     North Pole,  even if we got  Healy clean coal  going on,                                                                   
     which you know  is slated for a court date  in June, and                                                                   
     so, I asked  -- you don't predicate any  solutions based                                                                   
     on that power  plant getting on line, but  we are paying                                                                   
     exorbitant prices for electricity alone.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     I  strongly support  a fuel  cost cap  for utilities  if                                                                   
     that's  how we  can  get it,  because  we need  regional                                                                   
     support.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MAYOR ISAACSON  said he,  personally, is  opposed to the  proposed                                                              
$1,200   rebate;  however,   he   emphasized   how  strongly   his                                                              
constituents support  the rebate, saying  they fear there  will be                                                              
no other  help.  He  concurred with  Mayor Jim Whittaker's  remark                                                              
that  the  local  government is  "feeling  the  rural  community's                                                              
pain."  He added, "... We get it; we really do."  He continued:                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Our heating oil  costs are four times the  amount of the                                                                   
     Cook  Inlet  area.   This  has  astronomically  doubled.                                                                   
     When  we double  our cost,  we are  really doubling  our                                                                   
     cost.   We're not  literally hamstringing  our people  -                                                                   
     we're bankrupting  our people.   The City of  North Pole                                                                   
     operates off  of a sales tax revenue, primarily.   We've                                                                   
     already  had businesses  shutting  down.   One of  them,                                                                   
     owned  by one of  your own  members of the  legislature,                                                                   
     cited  his   reason  this   last  week  as,   "declining                                                                   
     economic   circumstance,"  and   also,  "high  cost   of                                                                   
     energy."                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     We are a small  little town of 2,000, [with  a ] service                                                                   
     area of  35,000.  We have  over 17,000 cars  driving our                                                                   
     main roads  each day  as they go  to the three  schools,                                                                   
     and so  forth.  If  you want to  be able to  help reduce                                                                   
     costs to schools,  if you want to keep  people employed,                                                                   
     [and]  if you  want to  be able  to make  sure we  don't                                                                   
     have   an  economic   crisis,  I   strongly  urge   this                                                                   
     committee  to  consider  a  regional  cost  equalization                                                                   
     that  would  include all  areas  that are  relying  upon                                                                   
     non-natural  gas  sources  for  heating  oil  or  energy                                                                   
     production - electricity and so forth.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
12:35:53 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 12:36:25 PM to 1:40:31 PM.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:40:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LeDOUX  called the House  Community and  Regional Affairs                                                              
Standing Committee  back to order to continue  public testimony on                                                              
HB 4002 and HB 4003.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:41:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARY ANN PEASE,  Consultant, MAP Consulting, testifying  on behalf                                                              
of the  Bristol Bay Native  Corporation (BBNC), expressed  concern                                                              
that  Alaska's   economy  may  be   negatively  impacted   if  the                                                              
legislature does  not act judiciously  in response to  the state's                                                              
energy  crisis.   Ms.  Pease announced  that  her testimony  would                                                              
focus on  two approaches:   PCE  and "home heating  equalization."                                                              
She continued:                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     As  winter  approaches, Alaskans  statewide  are  facing                                                                   
     the  economically  uncomfortable  prospect of  a  winter                                                                   
     with unprecedented  costs for  energy, particularly  for                                                                   
     heating  their homes  and businesses.   Nowhere is  that                                                                   
     impact  greater than  here in Western  Alaska where  all                                                                   
     communities  are dependent  on local  electric and  fuel                                                                   
     sources that are  burdened not only by the  high cost of                                                                   
      the product itself, but also the transportation cost                                                                      
     to get it there.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     On behalf  of those communities,  I want to urge  you to                                                                   
     pass HB  4002 and  HB 4003, to  provide a small  measure                                                                   
     of  assistance   to  rural  residents  faced   with  the                                                                   
     economic dilemma  of buying energy or  other necessities                                                                   
     - but not both.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  PEASE,  regarding  PCE,  stated   her  belief  that  an  easy                                                              
solution  would be  to seasonally  adjust the  500 kilowatt  hours                                                              
per month  "allocated to  an eligible  electric utility  for sales                                                              
of power  for actual  consumption to  each residential  consumer."                                                              
She  mentioned  that she  had  done  all  the calculations.    The                                                              
second component  regarding PCE,  she said,  would be  to consider                                                              
adjusting  the  52.5 cents  per  kWh  cap  and to  "recognize  the                                                              
effect  of  the  dramatically  changing  oil prices  on  the  fuel                                                              
costs."                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS.  PEASE  noted  that  Alaska  North  Slope  oil  production  is                                                              
falling; therefore,  "programs to increase the use  of alternative                                                              
sources  of energy,  as well  as conservation  and development  of                                                              
new sources  of oil and gas"  will be needed to  ensure affordable                                                              
power to all parts of the state.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  PEASE,  regarding  home  heating,   asked  the  committee  to                                                              
consider an amendment  "that would propose 500  gallons of heating                                                              
fuel to  eligible Alaskan residents  at a  price equal to  the Btu                                                              
equivalent in  Anchorage, Fairbanks,  and Juneau."   She indicated                                                              
that her notes  show how simple  it would be to administer  such a                                                              
plan.  The  intent of the  proposed amendment would be  to provide                                                              
a minimum lifeline  amount of heating fuel to Alaskans  who do not                                                              
live in urban Alaska.   Ms. Pease said some people  in rural areas                                                              
do not have  a PCE utility, and  her proposed plan would  focus on                                                              
the fuel  oil component, which makes  up a large portion  of those                                                              
rural residents' home heating costs.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  PEASE   stated,  "The   short-term  solution  is   definitely                                                              
improved  by HB  4002 and  [HB]  4003, but  we need  to invest  in                                                              
infrastructure and  mandate a renewable  mix with fossil  fuel for                                                              
our electric  utilities - a  strategy that  should be part  of the                                                              
overall  energy plan  for our state.   Alternatives  may take  the                                                              
form  of wind,  hydro  - even  propane that  we  extract from  the                                                              
North Slope  - but the  key message is  that the current  reliance                                                              
on fuel oil must  be diversified."  She commended  the legislature                                                              
for its leadership on this critical issue.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:45:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LeDOUX  closed  public testimony  and  opened  committee                                                              
discussion, beginning  with HB  4002.  She  announced that  at its                                                              
last hearing,  the committee had  read amendments for  the record,                                                              
but they had not been moved for adoption.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:46:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OLSON [moved that  the committee] adopt  Amendment                                                              
1, labeled 25-GH4057\A.3, Cook, 7/21/08, which read:                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 1, through page 6, line 2:                                                                                    
          Delete all material and insert:                                                                                       
     ""An  Act  relating  to  Alaska  resource  rebates,  and                                                                 
     increasing  the  amount  of   the  2008  permanent  fund                                                                 
     dividend  by the  amount of  the  rebate; and  providing                                                                 
     for an effective date."                                                                                                  
     BE  IT  ENACTED  BY  THE LEGISLATURE  OF  THE  STATE  OF                                                                 
     ALASKA:                                                                                                                  
        *  Section 1.  The  uncodified law  of  the State  of                                                                 
     Alaska is amended by adding a new section to read:                                                                         
          ALASKA RESOURCE REBATES. (a) To provide residents                                                                     
     of  the  state  with  an  Alaska  resource  rebate,  the                                                                   
     amount  of the  2008 permanent  fund  dividend shall  be                                                                   
     increased.  After calculating  the  amount  of the  2008                                                                   
     dividend   under  AS 43.23.025,   the  commissioner   of                                                                   
     revenue shall  add $1,200 to determine the  total amount                                                                   
     of that dividend.                                                                                                          
          (b)  Subject to appropriation, the amount                                                                             
     necessary  to  increase 2008  permanent  fund  dividends                                                                   
     under  (a) of  this section  shall  be transferred  from                                                                   
     the general fund to the dividend fund (AS 43.23.045)."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill section accordingly.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM seconded that motion.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LeDOUX objected for purposes of discussion.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OLSON explained  that  Amendment 1  would tag  the                                                              
rebate to  the 2008  PFD, both for  qualifications to  receive the                                                              
rebate and  as a  vehicle to  deliver the  funds to the  citizens.                                                              
He noted that Amendment 1 includes a title change.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:47:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   SALMON  related   his   understanding  that   the                                                              
legislation already accomplishes the aforementioned.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   OLSON  deferred   to  representatives   from  the                                                              
administration.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:47:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RANDY  RUARO, Special  Staff Assistant,  Office  of the  Governor,                                                              
related his  understanding that  Amendment 1 deletes  the existing                                                              
text of  the legislation and replaces  it with text  that provides                                                              
that the  payment method will  be an additional  line item  on the                                                              
2008 PFD.   The amendment doesn't  change who is eligible  and who                                                              
isn't  as   the  [qualifying]  applicants   would  be   those  who                                                              
[qualify] for the 2008 PFD.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OLSON  clarified that  the intent with  Amendment 1                                                              
is to  utilize [the residency  requirements of] something  that is                                                              
already  in place  in  order to  avoid  having  the residency  and                                                              
participation  requirements   tested  in  court.     For  one  who                                                              
qualifies  to  receive a  2008  PFD  check,  that check  would  be                                                              
increased by $1,200 to cover the proposed resource rebate.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:49:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SALMON   asked  then  if  the   legislation  still                                                              
includes the application requirement of six months.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LeDOUX clarified  that [adoption  of Amendment  1] would                                                              
result in  those who  receive a 2008  PFD receiving  an additional                                                              
$1,200.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OLSON confirmed  that interpretation,  adding that                                                              
[Amendment  1] is  a  one-shot deal  until  there  is a  permanent                                                              
long-term  [energy] plan.   By  including the  resource rebate  in                                                              
the PFD, it can't be extended, he said.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:50:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DAHLSTROM  highlighted  that  another  benefit  of                                                              
[Amendment  1]  is  that  the state  is  saved  $580,000  that  it                                                              
would've cost to send separate checks.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:50:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. RUARO  interjected that the  total savings [with  the adoption                                                              
of]  Amendment 1  is  estimated to  be approximately  $56  million                                                              
because  the  45,000 individuals  [who  would've  qualified  under                                                              
Section 1(e)(2)(A)-(E) of HB 4002] would be eliminated.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:50:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA expressed  concern with  those in  need not                                                              
receiving help  when they desperately  need it.  She  related that                                                              
her constituents  have told her  they didn't feel they  needed the                                                              
rebate, but instead  wanted it to go to those who  do.  Therefore,                                                              
[Amendment 1] flies  in the face of the majority  of responses she                                                              
has received.   Drawing from her experience prior  to the issuance                                                              
of  the  PFD  and afterwards,  she  also  expressed  concern  that                                                              
people  receive the  PFD without  essentially understanding  where                                                              
it  comes  from  and  what  it's all  about.    By  combining  the                                                              
resource  rebate with  the  PFD,  she opined  that  it "becomes  a                                                              
bigger  trip,   ...  a  bigger   toy  that's  purchased"   and  is                                                              
disconnected  with  the  fact  that   [the  legislature/state]  is                                                              
trying to focus on long-term solutions.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:53:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   OLSON  said   that  the   only  portion   of  the                                                              
administration's proposal  that he is addressing with  Amendment 1                                                              
is the  portion that  addressed the  [resource rebate]  that would                                                              
be provided  to people  on a per  capita basis.   He related  that                                                              
although he agrees  with Representative Cissna, it  isn't anything                                                              
the legislation, HB 4002, contemplates.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:54:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA opined that  the way  in which  this matter                                                              
is  addressed could  start  right  away and  be  an incentive  for                                                              
people  to actually  begin  reviewing the  problem.   She  further                                                              
opined that  [Amendment 1]  takes away  the incentive  [to address                                                              
the energy problem].                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:55:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   DAHLSTROM   said   although   she   agrees   with                                                              
Representative  Cissna's intent, she  takes a different  approach.                                                              
She  related  her belief  that  if  citizens  know that  they  are                                                              
receiving  a [resource  rebate],  they  can make  arrangements  to                                                              
have things  done in their households.   She further  related that                                                              
issuing  a   separate  check  for   the  resource   rebate  versus                                                              
combining that  rebate with the  PFD isn't going to  ensure people                                                              
spend the money  any differently.  Furthermore,  Amendment 1 would                                                              
save  the state  money that  could  be used  to address  long-term                                                              
projects.   The [resource rebate],  she opined, has nothing  to do                                                              
with the  PFD other than  it will be issued  on the same  piece of                                                              
paper.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:56:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SALMON  pointed   out  that  Amendment  1  deletes                                                              
Section 2, which repeals Section 1 on June 30, 2009.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OLSON  said that  is because the [resource  rebate]                                                              
is a "one-shot deal through the 2008 permanent fund ...."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LeDOUX pointed  out  that the  language  in Amendment  1                                                              
only speaks to the 2008 PFD.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:57:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH  stated her  support  of  Amendment  1.   She                                                              
recalled  the testimony  from throughout  the  state that  related                                                              
the immediate  need for the state  to react [to the  energy needs]                                                              
of communities  in a broad-based  fashion.   One of the  only ways                                                              
the  state  has  successfully passed  the  challenges  within  the                                                              
court   system   is   with   the    permanent   fund   eligibility                                                              
requirements.   Many  have  testified about  other  ways in  which                                                              
this committee  and the legislature  as a whole can  address long-                                                              
and  short-term  energy  crisis   needs.    However,  bureaucracy,                                                              
politics,  and   government  are  somewhat  bound   by  rules  and                                                              
structures  regarding  how  [proposals/plans]  can  move  forward.                                                              
The  aforementioned  requires  time,  a  thoughtful  process,  and                                                              
legal review.   To perform the aforementioned in  a 30-day session                                                              
is  very  difficult,   she  opined.    Co-Chair   Fairclough  then                                                              
reminded  the  committee  that  the legislation  before  it  is  a                                                              
resource  rebate not  the energy  issue.  Amendment  1 takes  away                                                              
the questions  in rural Alaska related  to the requirements  for a                                                              
phone  number and  physical address  because  people have  already                                                              
applied  for the 2008  PFD and  there already  exists a  database,                                                              
process,  and  [staff]  in  place.    She  pointed  out  that  the                                                              
resource rebate before the committee creates an almost $500,000-                                                                
plus bureaucracy  to implement a  one-time program.   Furthermore,                                                              
it tasks  two different  departments to  do the  same thing.   She                                                              
characterized  the aforementioned  as a  poor use  of the  state's                                                              
money.   Recalling the  committee discussion  regarding those  who                                                              
owe the  state or  others funds,  Co-Chair Fairclough  opined that                                                              
using the existing  PFD structure, eligibility rules,  and appeals                                                              
processes  would make  it much  more likely  that this  particular                                                              
"intervention" could happen immediately without court challenge.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:02:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH  noted that  the one  thing Amendment  1 lacks                                                              
is the  ability to  expediently place the  resource rebate  in the                                                              
hands of Alaskans.   She then asked if there is a  way in which to                                                              
put the PFD  out in the first  two weeks of September  rather than                                                              
in October.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:03:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JERRY   BURNETT,  Director,   Administrative  Services   Division,                                                              
Department  of Revenue, explained  that the  problem with  such is                                                              
that the  books don't close  on the fiscal  year until  August 31.                                                              
Therefore,  the dividend  can't be calculated.   Furthermore,  the                                                              
division does  an annual cycle  of eligibility.   It's impractical                                                              
to calculate  the amount of the  dividend based on  earnings prior                                                              
to late August,  early September.   Mr. Burnett said that  the PFD                                                              
can't  go out  much quicker  than  the already  planned October  2                                                              
date for the first  set of direct deposits due  to the calculation                                                              
date.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH  recalled that Mr.  Burnett has said  that the                                                              
2008 PFD  database  would be used  to issue  the resource  rebates                                                              
under the  program proposed by  the administration.   She inquired                                                              
as to the difference.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. BURNETT  explained  that if  a resource rebate  was issued  in                                                              
August,   not  everyone   who's   eligible   would  be   captured.                                                              
Furthermore, at that  point the division wouldn't know  all of the                                                              
people  who   are  going  to  be   eligible  for  the   2008  PFD.                                                              
Therefore, perhaps  85-90 percent of  those who would  be eligible                                                              
would be  paid in August,  and then others  would be paid  as they                                                              
are determined to be eligible throughout the rest of the year.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH  surmised that  there  really  isn't a  clear                                                              
number  of PFD  recipients in  October,  when checks  begin to  be                                                              
issued.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.   BURNETT   clarified   that  in   August,   the   eligibility                                                              
determinations for  10-15 percent  of the PFD applications  turned                                                              
in have not been  completed, often that is because  the department                                                              
is  still  waiting  for information  it  has  requested  from  the                                                              
applicants.   By  mid-September  there  is enough  information  to                                                              
determine,  within a  couple  of hundred,  [who  will receive  the                                                              
PFD].  He suggested  that if the determination is  made in August,                                                              
the  numbers  would  be  off  by   1,000  or  more  in  the  total                                                              
eligibility count.   The  aforementioned changes the  department's                                                              
ability to  accurately determine the  amount of the dividend.   He                                                              
noted that  there are other  governmental processes, and  they can                                                              
"only be accelerated so much."                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:07:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR   FAIRCLOUGH  asked   if   the  administration   supports                                                              
Amendment 1.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BURNETT offered  his understanding that the  administration is                                                              
not opposed  to Amendment  1 and  can support  it, although  there                                                              
are  some concerns  about  the disabled  veterans  issue and  some                                                              
other  issues.   The administration  would like  to discuss  those                                                              
concerns with the next committee of referral to find a solution.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH  related  her understanding  that  the  issue                                                              
with  the  disabled veterans  has  been  a  problem for  years  as                                                              
disabled veterans  haven't applied  for the  PFD because  it would                                                              
disqualify  them from receiving  federal  benefits.  The  resource                                                              
rebate  program was  crafted to  capture  those disabled  veterans                                                              
who hadn't applied for the 2008 PFD.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.   RUARO  responded   that  is   correct,   adding  that   [the                                                              
administration] would  work to try to find a solution  in the next                                                              
committee of referral.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH  highlighted  that she  and  Co-Chair  LeDoux                                                              
spoke about  bringing forward  the issue  with disabled  veterans,                                                              
if the  administration desired  that it be  fixed.  If  two checks                                                              
are going  to be  issued and  there's an  additional cost  for the                                                              
second check,  she questioned whether  the [first check]  could be                                                              
issued based on  last year's PFD and then "gin  up" with everybody                                                              
with the second check.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BURNETT pointed  out that  the  aforementioned would  require                                                              
two  checks  for  many people  and  wouldn't  save  administrative                                                              
costs  over  the  original  proposal.     "In  order  to  do  this                                                              
practically,  under this amendment,  we really  need to do  it all                                                              
at once  and we'd be  doing a lot  of the payments  through direct                                                              
deposits under this set of circumstances," he explained.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH said  she appreciates  that  for someone  who                                                              
receives  direct  deposit.   However,  [the committee  has  heard]                                                              
that people  need to  "advance the  purchase of  fuel to  get into                                                              
smaller communities."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:10:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LEDOUX returned  to the remark  that the  administration                                                              
will  seek a  solution for  disabled  veterans, and  asked if  the                                                              
solution will  only be in  the context  of this legislation  or in                                                              
the context of the entire PFD program.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. RUARO  answered that  the intention is  to develop  a solution                                                              
in terms of the  legislation before the committee.   He noted that                                                              
he wasn't  sure that anything  beyond the aforementioned  could be                                                              
achieved, given the scope of the call.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LeDOUX returned  to the issue of when  the earliest check                                                              
could be  delivered.  She recalled  that PFD applications  are due                                                              
by March 31,  and thus by September  1 the department  has all the                                                              
applications.    Therefore, the  department  is merely  trying  to                                                              
obtain additional information from applicants.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BURNETT replied  yes,  adding that  applicants  may have  had                                                              
allowable  absences  that need  to  be explained  or  nonallowable                                                              
absences  that require  additional  information.   In many  cases,                                                              
the signature  page for individuals  who have filed  online hasn't                                                              
been  received.   Therefore, on  September  1 there  will be  some                                                              
number  of  applications [that  require  additional  information].                                                              
In  further response  to Co-Chair  LeDoux,  Mr. Burnett  specified                                                              
that  those [applications  requiring further  information] are  in                                                              
the low  thousands.   He confirmed  that the  division has  a good                                                              
idea regarding  how many  will be verified,  and added  that there                                                              
is  a general  pattern.   However, he  noted that  the longer  the                                                              
timeframe, the more accurate the information.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LeDOUX surmised  then that  the division  could come  up                                                              
with a "pretty darn good estimation" of the PFD by September 1.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. BURNETT answered  that the division can have  a good estimate.                                                              
However,  it won't  be  until September  that  the final  year-end                                                              
earnings,  expenditures,  and et  cetera are  available.   To  the                                                              
extent an estimate is done, the PFD would be underpaid.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LeDOUX   opined  that  it's  probably   a  small  amount                                                              
compared to the  benefit of obtaining the PFD  earlier rather than                                                              
later for some people.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BURNETT   said  that's  correct  for   calculation  purposes.                                                              
However,  he said  he wasn't  sure how  much earlier  some of  the                                                              
other  processes,   such  as   when  checks   can  be   mailed  or                                                              
arrangements have been made for printing, have been scheduled.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:16:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN related his  support for  Amendment 1.   He                                                              
then thanked  Mr. Ruaro and  Mr. Burnett  for their work  with the                                                              
committee on  this legislation.   He  reminded the committee  that                                                              
Amendment 1  addresses the  ability to  garnish for child  support                                                              
payments or other  payments to the state.   Furthermore, Amendment                                                              
1 saves the state money while making government more efficient.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:17:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA inquired  what the  earliest time  would be                                                              
in which the rebates would be issued.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. BURNETT answered,  "I know we can  send it out in  October.  I                                                              
don't  know for  sure  how  much earlier  than  that  it could  be                                                              
gotten  out."   He offered  to work  with staff  to determine  how                                                              
early the [resource rebate] could be issued.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LeDOUX  related her understanding the PFD  check includes                                                              
language specifying that the check is "kind of an estimate."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BURNETT  echoed earlier testimony  that when the  division has                                                              
an estimate  of how  many people it  will pay, it  has an  idea of                                                              
how many applicants  who haven't been qualified  will qualify, how                                                              
many  will win  their appeals,  how many  under 18  will apply  in                                                              
future  years,  and  which  funds   need  to  be  reserved.    The                                                              
aforementioned  has been  done,  he said.   He  then reminded  the                                                              
committee that  the more eligibility  that has occurred,  the more                                                              
accurate the estimate.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LeDOUX posed  a scenario in which one year  the PFD is $5                                                              
less than the estimate.   She asked if, in such  a scenario, there                                                              
is a true-up line so that it's on the next year's PFD.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BURNETT explained  that if  the  division underestimates  the                                                              
payment  and  a balance  is  carried  forward, the  amount  that's                                                              
carried  forward  is simply  added  to  the amount  available  for                                                              
payment in the next year.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LeDOUX opined, "It  kind of  sounds like  to me  that if                                                              
you really  wanted  to get these  things out  in early  September,                                                              
that it would be a doable thing."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. BURNETT reiterated  that there are a number  of administrative                                                              
processes and he doesn't know which could occur more quickly.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:20:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA  commented that  the timing is  probably the                                                              
critical thing in her mind.  She opined:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     It goes  straight back  to that  original question  that                                                                   
     we  had several  meetings  ago  and that  is:   What  is                                                                   
     this?   Is  it a  rebate on  the grand  amount of  money                                                                   
     we've been making  and we're going to share  it with the                                                                   
     people of Alaska  or is it a rebate that's  based on the                                                                   
     energy  costs  that people  are  ... being  driven  into                                                                   
     lower classes  than they started  out in because  of the                                                                   
     energy costs?   And  so, our state  is getting  more and                                                                   
     more  wealthy, and  our citizens  are  getting less  and                                                                   
     less.  ...  It almost sounds like it would  be the same,                                                                   
     but  the way  you  say  it says  a  huge amount  to  the                                                                   
     people of the  state and it also frames  amendments that                                                                   
     are  still there  and  one of  those  amendments may  go                                                                   
     away with  this.   But, the amendment  I plan on  making                                                                   
     is directly  tied to the  fact that we're talking  about                                                                   
     the  fact  that  people  have been  paying  out  a  huge                                                                   
     amount  and they're going  to pay  out more and  exactly                                                                   
     what that's doing to the state.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA,  drawing  from  recent  testimony,  opined                                                              
that the  legislature should  address what  people are  paying and                                                              
take  care of  those  who  are paying  a  large portion  of  their                                                              
incomes [for energy].                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:22:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OLSON  opined  that  it's  a  matter  of  personal                                                              
philosophy and  related that  he would never  tell anybody  how to                                                              
spend their money  or what to spend it on.  He said  he believes a                                                              
good  portion [of  the proposed  resource rebate]  will go  toward                                                              
energy-related issues, fuel, or gasoline.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA  said she doesn't disagree,  but highlighted                                                              
that cooler  temperatures are already  occurring and the  money is                                                              
needed now.   Therefore,  providing the money  in October  will be                                                              
too  late.   She noted  her agreement  with  Co-Chair LeDoux  that                                                              
perhaps  the division  could be  looser with  the estimate  of the                                                              
PFD  because  people would  likely  prefer  to receive  the  funds                                                              
earlier, although it may be short $10 or so.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:24:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LEDOUX inquired  as to when  people could  realistically                                                              
expect to receive  the resource rebate if HB 4002  were to pass as                                                              
written.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BURNETT  answered  that  if the  funds  were  available,  the                                                              
division would  issue approximately  580,000 checks for  $1,200 in                                                              
August,  with the  remainder  being  sent out  on  a weekly  basis                                                              
throughout the remainder of the calendar year.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  RUARO pointed  out that  the  estimate from  the Division  of                                                              
Finance  is the  end  of August  and possibly  the  first week  of                                                              
September.   The difference,  in terms of  time, between  HB 4002,                                                              
as  written, and  HB 4002,  as amended  by Amendment  1, could  be                                                              
about 27-30 days.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. BURNETT  interjected that  the division  is willing  to [issue                                                              
the checks  earlier], it's a  matter of what  can be done  and how                                                              
soon it can be done.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:26:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH  said that Amendment  1 minimizes the  risk of                                                              
a challenge  of the [resource rebate]  program.  She  related that                                                              
she  supports  Amendment   1  because  it  uses   the  eligibility                                                              
requirements  and database  of the  PFD, which  is tried and  true                                                              
and has withstood challenges in the past.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:30:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA remarked  that  the risk  factor exists  on                                                              
all legislation  the legislature  passes.   She stressed  that the                                                              
state has problems  that will change Alaska permanently,  and this                                                              
is start  of [addressing those  problems].  Representative  Cissna                                                              
said she's  not in favor of Amendment  1 because of the  timing of                                                              
the check.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM called the question.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:32:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LEDOUX removed her objection to Amendment 1.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
There being no further objection, Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:32:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH  moved to report HB 4002 out  of committee, as                                                              
amended,  with  individual recommendations  and  the  accompanying                                                              
amended fiscal notes.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA objected.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:33:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA  pointed out that she had  an amendment that                                                              
was read across.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 2:34 p.m. to 2:35 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:35:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH withdrew her motion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:35:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA moved  that the  committee adopt  Amendment                                                              
2, which read:                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     An  allocation  of funds  distributing  state  resources                                                                   
     for  energy  relief shall  be  calculated on  a  formula                                                                   
     using  "heating degree  days  and the  average  regional                                                                   
     cost of one gallon of heating fuel or Btu equivalent."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH objected.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LEDOUX  said that  since  there  was  no second  on  the                                                              
motion  to  adopt  Amendment  2,  Representative  Cissna  couldn't                                                              
speak to it.   She further stated that since there  was no second,                                                              
Amendment 2 wasn't [available] for discussion.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA asked to make another comment.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LEDOUX said that  Representative  Cissna could  not make                                                              
another comment.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA  remarked that as a member  of the committee                                                              
she would like to make another comment about the process.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LEDOUX  said that  Representative  Cissna  could make  a                                                              
comment or object, but she was going to call for a vote.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:36:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH  moved to report  HB 4002, as amended,  out of                                                              
committee  with individual  recommendations  and the  accompanying                                                              
revised fiscal notes.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA objected.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:37:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN objected, adding  that although  he intends                                                              
to  vote against  this  legislation, he  understands  the need  to                                                              
help Alaskans.   He reminded the  committee that he has  asked the                                                              
Office of Management  & Budget to provide a list  of the funds for                                                              
which the state  is committed to provide.  He highlighted  that he                                                              
hasn't  been able  to receive  that  information.   Representative                                                              
Neuman emphasized  his belief  that the state  will be  in deficit                                                              
in the  next four  or five years  and the only  answer will  be to                                                              
not issue PFDs  and to institute an  income tax.  "To  say that we                                                              
have  a lot  of  extra money  in  this state  is  just wrong,"  he                                                              
remarked.   He emphasized  that  there is  a lot  of dept in  this                                                              
state.   Representative  Neuman  said that  he couldn't  [support]                                                              
spending  another $1.2  billion when  the state  doesn't know  the                                                              
amount  of the  billions of  dollars  it owes.   He  characterized                                                              
this as  a tough vote for  him because he  has to face  those such                                                              
as   seniors   who   can't   pay    their   heating   fuel   bill.                                                              
Representative  Neuman then  emphasized that  if this  legislation                                                              
took  $1.2  million  and  invested  it in  a  gasline  to  Valdez,                                                              
hundreds  of jobs in  Alaska could  be created.   Furthermore,  if                                                              
these funds  were used to  build a gasline  in Western  Alaska, he                                                              
suggested   that  many  jobs   could  be   created  and   resource                                                              
development  costs would  be  lowered while  the  energy costs  in                                                              
Western  Alaska could  be lowered.    However, the  aforementioned                                                              
hasn't  be discussed  or reviewed.   Until such  a discussion  has                                                              
occurred, Representative  Neuman indicated that he  [can't support                                                              
this  legislation].   He  related  his  desire  to use  the  [$1.2                                                              
million]  to  create  jobs,  and  fund  long-term  investments  in                                                              
Alaska that will save energy.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:43:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN then pointed  out that  there isn't  even a                                                              
total of what will  be spent for the five or  six bills introduced                                                              
[this special session].  He issued an appology as follows:                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     I'm sorry  that as  your legislator,  I just don't  feel                                                                   
     that  it's  appropriate that  we  can  do this  when  we                                                                   
     don't have  an account on how  much debt we  already owe                                                                   
     in this  state.  I  don't think that  we have all  these                                                                   
     extra billions  of dollars.  And I will  really be sorry                                                                   
     when votes come  up to have to try and charge  an income                                                                   
     tax or  take your permanent  fund dividend away  and I'm                                                                   
     really going to  be sorry when we have to  start cutting                                                                   
     these programs,  programs to the  needy ....   ... State                                                                   
     spending  has  gone  [up]   12  to  14  percent  in  our                                                                   
     operating  budget [in] ...  the last 5  or 6 six  years,                                                                   
     another  ... 23  percent last  year;  we cannot  sustain                                                                   
     that.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:45:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA,  speaking   to  her  objection,  said  she                                                              
objects  to forwarding  HB 4002,  as amended,  without having  the                                                              
opportunity  to introduce  [Amendment 2]  along with the  attached                                                              
chart.   Representative  Cissna  relayed  that [a  colleague]  who                                                              
could've   really  explained   the   chart  was   told  that   the                                                              
[amendment]  wasn't  going to  be  heard.   Representative  Cissna                                                              
opined that  HB 4002,  as amended,  is in  opposition to  what she                                                              
understood  the  governor  was asking  the  [legislature]  to  do.                                                              
Amendment 2  was something that  might have met what  the governor                                                              
wanted  and  more.   Representative  Cissna  reiterated  that  she                                                              
can't support HB 4002, as amended.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:46:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LEDOUX  said she doesn't believe Representative  Cissna's                                                              
colleague   was  ever  told   the  committee   wouldn't   hear  an                                                              
amendment.   She further  said that  her colleague  may have  been                                                              
told that it  was unlikely that  there were the votes  to pass the                                                              
amendment.  Co-Chair  LeDoux then pointed out  that Representative                                                              
Cissna  could  introduce  legislation  that  the  committee  could                                                              
review, if that  legislation qualifies under the  governor's call.                                                              
Regardless  of  what  one  thinks   of  appropriateness,  Co-Chair                                                              
LeDoux opined  that the legislation  deserves the ability  to have                                                              
a vote of the full legislature.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:48:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   SALMON,  drawing  from   his  knowledge   of  the                                                              
problems in  rural Alaska, related that  some are on the  verge of                                                              
being  desperate.    He  announced that  he  supports  the  $1,200                                                              
[resource  rebate]  because it's  the  only immediate  relief  for                                                              
this winter.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:49:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote was taken.   Representatives Salmon,  Dahlstrom,                                                              
Olson, LeDoux,  and Fairclough voted in  favor of the HB  4002, as                                                              
amended.   Representatives  Neuman  and Cissna  voted against  it.                                                              
Therefore,  CSHB   4002(CRA)  was   reported  out  of   the  House                                                              
Community and  Regional Affairs  Standing Committee  by a  vote of                                                              
5-2.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:50:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 2:50 p.m. to 2:54 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:54:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LeDOUX  announced that  the  committee  would now  focus                                                              
discussion on HB 4003.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH  offered  her   understanding  that  Co-Chair                                                              
LeDoux  had  taken  public  testimony  on  HB  4002  and  HB  4003                                                              
simultaneously  and subsequently  closed  public  testimony.   She                                                              
said she  did not have comments  to make pertaining to  [HB 4003],                                                              
but  questioned  whether  the administration  may  wish  to  offer                                                              
remarks for clarification.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:54:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JERRY   BURNETT,  Director,   Administrative  Services   Division,                                                              
Department  of Revenue,  noted that  the amount  of $800  million,                                                              
which is  associated with the  resource rebate, would  probably be                                                              
amended to  a different number in  the next committee  of referral                                                              
if the  House Community  and Regional  Affairs Standing  Committee                                                              
does not amend it.   He indicated that number would  be "somewhere                                                              
in the neighborhood of $744 million."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:55:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN  said  that   for  the  reasons  he  stated                                                              
previously,  he  would   most  likely  be  a  "no"   vote  on  the                                                              
legislation.    He said  he  knows many  people  who  do not  have                                                              
electricity,  but  run  power  off a  generator,  and  "they  will                                                              
receive nothing out  of this."  He said the increases  in PCE will                                                              
affect those  who are already getting  money, while those  who are                                                              
not  getting   assistance  will  continue   in  that  vein.     He                                                              
questioned what is  being done to provide solar  panels, loans, or                                                              
grants, or  power line extensions,  for example, noting  that some                                                              
of his  constituents live close  to a power  line, while  no money                                                              
is being  allocated to  help connect them  to it.   He said  it is                                                              
certainly  a   Native  tradition   and,  he  thinks,   an  Alaskan                                                              
tradition to  help each other  - to figure  out how those  who are                                                              
getting nothing  can get something.   He said Alaska's  debt keeps                                                              
adding up -  there is no way to  even know how to add it  up - and                                                              
there is no plan.   He said as a legislator, he  has tried to find                                                              
out how much the state is in debt and he cannot get an answer.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:58:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OLSON said  he will support  the legislation,  but                                                              
only because he  thinks it is important enough to  bring it before                                                              
the  whole legislative  body for  consideration  and a  vote.   He                                                              
said he  would wait to  see if the bill  gets to the  House floor,                                                              
at which point he would add his comments.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:59:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA  said  she   will  vote  in  favor  of  the                                                              
legislation,  but that she  identifies with  the comments  made by                                                              
Representative  Neuman.    She   specified  that  it  is  not  the                                                              
legislation  itself that  she finds  problematic,  but rather  the                                                              
committee  process.   She said  the legislature  focused for  some                                                              
time  on   legislation  related  to   AGIA,  and  now   that  that                                                              
legislation has  passed, it is  rushing through the  energy issues                                                              
without taking  the time "to  do what needed  to have  been done."                                                              
Furthermore,  she said  before the  legislature  ever heard  these                                                              
bills, it needed  to know "what  else was in the package  and what                                                              
the big  picture was."   She stated  that in her  10 years  in the                                                              
legislature,  this issue is  of number  one importance  because it                                                              
affects the entire  state.  She noted that it costs  $12,000 a day                                                              
"to  have  us here  in  this  room."    She said  she  thinks  the                                                              
legislature  should "do  more," which  is why  she does not  think                                                              
the committee "should have been passing either of these bills."                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:01:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LeDOUX, for  the benefit  of the  public, remarked  that                                                              
there  have been  five days  of testimony  on this  issue.   Other                                                              
than  the PPT  and the  gas  pipeline bill,  she  said she  cannot                                                              
recall another bill hearing that included more public testimony.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:02:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH  moved Conceptual  Amendment  1,  to ask  the                                                              
legal department  to provide the legislature with  new language in                                                              
HB  4003 to  match the  changes  already made  in CSHB  4002(CRA).                                                              
She  specified Sections  2, 3,  and  5, and  said the  eligibility                                                              
requirements and attached fiscal note would be changed.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:03:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BURNETT  responded  that  he has  already  prepared  a  draft                                                              
fiscal  note  for  the  Department   of  Revenue,  based  on  that                                                              
amendment, and would get that to "our folks."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:03:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH  said  she   is  trying  not  to  affect  the                                                              
importance  of the Alaska  Energy Authority  and PCE provided  for                                                              
in  the legislation.   Those  topics need  to go  forward so  that                                                              
there can be a  fuller discussion in the House  and Senate Finance                                                              
Committees, she opined.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:03:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LeDOUX  asked if  there was  any objection to  Conceptual                                                              
Amendment [1].  There being none, it was adopted.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:04:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LeDOUX  said she  will vote to  move the legislation  out                                                              
of  committee,  but  said  she has  problems  with  PCE  "and  the                                                              
communities that  it doesn't include."   For example, some  of the                                                              
villages in  Kodiak are  not eligible for  PCE, although  they are                                                              
paying a  substantial amount for  energy.  Other areas  across the                                                              
state are  experiencing similar  problems.   Co-Chair LeDoux  said                                                              
she  thinks  the  legislature should  reevaluate  the  entire  PCE                                                              
program to  make it  fairer to all  communities around  the state;                                                              
however, she said  the legislation currently before  the committee                                                              
is not the appropriate vehicle in which to do so.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:05:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH  stated  that   when  the  governor  and  her                                                              
administration  decided to  give these bills  to the  legislature,                                                              
that  "started  a  clock  ticking   that  has  a  whole  bunch  of                                                              
bureaucracy  tied to it."   She  opined that  the reason  that the                                                              
House  Community  and  Regional   Affairs  Standing  Committee  is                                                              
trying to  "streamline" to get the  bills passed out  of committee                                                              
is because  there are  only 30  days in  the special session,  and                                                              
only  14 of  those  days  remain.   Holding  the bill  back  would                                                              
result in Alaska  being left with nothing, she said.   She offered                                                              
further details.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:07:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LeDOUX,  [although  no  motion  had  been  made  and  no                                                              
objection was stated],  asked if Representative  Neuman maintained                                                              
his objection.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:07:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA noted that  in her six  years on  the House                                                              
Community  and Regional  Affairs Standing  Committee, many  issues                                                              
have  been  addressed  for  weeks, involving  work  groups.    She                                                              
concurred  with the  previous  comments of  Representative  Neuman                                                              
regarding the legislation.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:08:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A  roll call  vote  was taken.   Representatives  Cissna,  Salmon,                                                              
Olson,  LeDoux,  and  Fairclough  voted  in  favor  of  the  bill.                                                              
Representative   Neuman  voted  against   it.    Therefore,   CSHB
4003(CRA), with  an amended forthcoming fiscal note,  was reported                                                              
out  of  the   House  Community  and  Regional   Affairs  Standing                                                              
Committee by a vote of 5-1.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being  no further business  before the committee,  the House                                                              
Community  and Regional  Affairs  Standing  Committee meeting  was                                                              
adjourned at 3:09:15 PM.                                                                                                      

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